Every heart carries a story that can reshape the world around us. Julie Menanno's narrative is a testament to that—a journey of transformation from an emotionally void childhood to her current triumph as a therapist and Instagram influencer. Embark with us as Julie opens up about the power of emotional education in parenting, her battle with anxious attachment, and her quest to cultivate a world nurtured by secure, loving relationships. Her dedication to breaking generational cycles and her insights into attachment theory aren't just academic musings; they're lived experiences that resonate with anyone striving to create a haven of support and understanding for their loved ones.
When we peel back the layers of our successes, are we nourished by the emotional support that sustains us, or is there a hollowness echoing beneath the surface? This episode doesn't just muse over such questions—it gives you tools to build meaningful relationships, set boundaries with compassion, and heal the emotional scars that often go unnoticed. Julie Monano champions the cause through her upcoming book, "Secure Love," providing couples and individuals with the knowledge required to forge stronger, healthier bonds. She introduces strategies on effective communication, response, and repair, crucial for those looking to foster a safe and secure partnership, particularly resonating with men and entrepreneurs within our community.
Join me as we not only discuss the theory behind emotional attachment but, more importantly, focus on actionable steps towards self-regulation and emotional engagement. Julie's insights cater to those grappling with the challenges of anxious or avoidant attachment styles, offering a guide to recognizing one's emotional triggers and finding a path to connection and growth. And as we wrap up this enlightening session, remember to mark your calendars for January 30th—the day Julie Monano's "Secure Love" hits the shelves, a resource I believe will change the relational landscape for many. Share your listening moments with us; by tagging Julie and me, you become part of a community dedicated to nurturing the heart of what makes us human—our relationships.
If you enjoyed this episode, please share it on social media and tag Ken Joslin.
Every heart carries a story that can reshape the world around us. Julie Menanno's narrative is a testament to that—a journey of transformation from an emotionally void childhood to her current triumph as a therapist and Instagram influencer. Embark with us as Julie opens up about the power of emotional education in parenting, her battle with anxious attachment, and her quest to cultivate a world nurtured by secure, loving relationships. Her dedication to breaking generational cycles and her insights into attachment theory aren't just academic musings; they're lived experiences that resonate with anyone striving to create a haven of support and understanding for their loved ones.
When we peel back the layers of our successes, are we nourished by the emotional support that sustains us, or is there a hollowness echoing beneath the surface? This episode doesn't just muse over such questions—it gives you tools to build meaningful relationships, set boundaries with compassion, and heal the emotional scars that often go unnoticed. Julie Monano champions the cause through her upcoming book, "Secure Love," providing couples and individuals with the knowledge required to forge stronger, healthier bonds. She introduces strategies on effective communication, response, and repair, crucial for those looking to foster a safe and secure partnership, particularly resonating with men and entrepreneurs within our community.
Join me as we not only discuss the theory behind emotional attachment but, more importantly, focus on actionable steps towards self-regulation and emotional engagement. Julie's insights cater to those grappling with the challenges of anxious or avoidant attachment styles, offering a guide to recognizing one's emotional triggers and finding a path to connection and growth. And as we wrap up this enlightening session, remember to mark your calendars for January 30th—the day Julie Monano's "Secure Love" hits the shelves, a resource I believe will change the relational landscape for many. Share your listening moments with us; by tagging Julie and me, you become part of a community dedicated to nurturing the heart of what makes us human—our relationships.
If you enjoyed this episode, please share it on social media and tag Ken Joslin.
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of as the leader grows. I have got a new friend on today that I think you guys are going to recognize love. I share her stuff constantly on my social media platforms Julie Monano, the secure relationship on Instagram. She's got over a million followers on Instagram and she's about to drop a brand new book called secure love. Julie, Welcome to as the leader grows.
Speaker 2:Hello, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:I'm super excited, take a minute and talk about I mean because there are several, I'll say, of you guys that are in that therapy world that that you know we shared a lot off off camera, off air. Really, my heart is to bring and merge kind of the faith based world, the therapy world and the entrepreneur world together to be able to help entrepreneurs in our core five which is faith, health, relationship, business and finances be able to be and become the best version of themselves. So tell our audience a little bit about how you got started doing what you're doing and how you've grown what you've grown.
Speaker 2:Well, I gosh, where do I start here? So I grew up in a home where, you know, I just didn't have, I didn't have a felt sense of being emotionally supported at. You know, for for the most part and I think I can kind of fit into this category that a lot of people can relate to where it was like on the outside, there's nothing wrong with our family, right, we look like completely normal family, but there's just no level of, you know, any kind of education or comfort around emotions or talking about emotions. And so that was, you know, created a lot of struggles in my life and so, but I just had this like overwhelming drive to have a family of my own and make it healthy. It was just like overwhelming drive. And so I ended up getting married, having six kids of my own, and was not able to create that health that I was so desperately craving. I just I didn't have the template, I didn't have the modeling, I didn't have the information that I needed.
Speaker 2:I was reading book after book of how to be, you know, a good parent. Everything was just conflicting information and it was getting me nowhere, and I was just, you know, it was just really gosh, what's the word. It was just so demoralizing to know that there was something out there that I could see other people achieving that I wasn't able to get for myself. And so the more I was reading and learning, the more I started realizing I have to know this stuff like from forwards and backwards. I'm not the type of person that's satisfied with with the self-help book Like I need to know exactly where this is all coming from.
Speaker 2:So the same overwhelming drive that I had to have a family was put me into grad school. You know which was insane? I had six kids at home, I was a stay-at-home mom, my youngest was one, and it was complete insanity for me to decide to go back and get a master's degree in psychology. But I did, I did. I happened to find a.
Speaker 2:This was I was in LA at the time. I happened to find a school that was two miles from my house that could do night and weekends, and I just I did it. I signed up. Everyone in my life was like what world are you thinking? But I was unstoppable at that point, and so what I did is I early on in, you know, within the first, I would say, a couple of months of starting, I discovered attachment theory, which was not really being taught in that program. It just kind of threw my own picking around through what they were teaching. I was like, okay, this is kind of the bottom of the barrel, like this is where it all sort of starts is with this attachment theory and everything else is just sort of an offshoot.
Speaker 1:Now, when they were talking about attachment theories, did you recognize yours quick?
Speaker 2:No, not really. Because, gosh, this is such a complicated answer? Because attachment theory, the way that you learn it as an academic, is very different from just learning the attachment styles. I know that's hard to explain, but once I you know, I was learning more about the theoretical underpinnings before attachment theory became what we call attachment theory, which is more like psychodynamic therapy, object relations, type of types of therapy that sort of morphed into what we now know as attachment theory. When I did start learning about the attachment styles yes, I could quickly identify with having an anxious attachment, for sure.
Speaker 1:How long into so you had six kids at home. At what point in the number of kids? I've got four daughters.
Speaker 2:I have five daughters in the sun.
Speaker 1:At what point in the journey of having children and being married did you go? Because you said you wanted to break the cycle. At what point in the journey did you go? I'm never going to break this unless I learn. Get some new information.
Speaker 2:The first day before. No, I went into it with some confidence, but I think it was probably I went into it with some false confidence. Honestly, I thought in my mind it was like you just kind of follow this formula right, my mom worked, my dad worked, I was alone a lot of the time after school, things like that. So for me it felt like if I just am a stay at home mom, if I'm always around, if I'm cooking the right foods, if they're wearing the right clothes, if I'm taking it was kind of like formulaic for me That'll solve everything. That's what it's all about. I started realizing that's really. I mean, those things are great, but that's not what emotional support is. Some of those things might help create an emotionally supportive environment, but so it was really when my probably when my son started kind of developing a mind of his own that I realized I have no idea how to parent.
Speaker 1:And so you start. You started in the journey of getting your, of going back and get your master's degree becoming a therapist, which my son-in-law actually just finished his master's degree at Alabama in May.
Speaker 2:Oh nice.
Speaker 1:In Birmingham Go Crimson Tide In the journey, in the journey you talk to me about, kind of the aha moments in that journey early of oh, oh, wow, I need this. Or in how much of that played into you as a child, going back and thinking about how you were raised and how that was impacting your parenting and your partnership with your husband.
Speaker 2:Hmm, okay, that's a pretty big question. Can you ask me, can you break that down a little bit?
Speaker 1:Yes, so. So tell me, like in the journey when you're going back to get your, when you're going back to get your master's degree, six kids at home schools, two miles away, like when, in that journey, was the kind of aha moment of oh, these are some things not just theoretical, but these are some things that I can use and apply to my marriage with my kids and this is really what I want to do to be able to help people, because that's really what you're doing right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay. So I don't. I don't know when in the journey this point happened, but it was kind of building to it just from having a lot of education about how attachment works and systems theory, which is how systems of people work, particularly close relationships, the family and the, the partnership between the couple. But at some point everything came together and clicked, which is everything starts with emotional support, everything, it is everything. You can't, nothing works Nothing. Businesses don't work, families don't work, physical health doesn't work. None of it works without the foundation of having emotional support.
Speaker 2:It's the same way that you can't be malnourished physically and certain thrive in life If you are emotionally malnourished, you will not thrive in life. You might look like you're thriving, you might have money, you might have, you know, on the outside you might appear to have success, but inside of you you will not. And so once I figured that out, and I figured out what that really really looks like, everything changed. And, to be honest, I keep, I keep fine tuning that, and so every time I fine tune it, everything changes again for the better.
Speaker 1:So it's just, it's just levels. You just keep kind of leveling up and your understanding and your knowledge, implementation, and then moving and then moving on. Now do you, when you're doing that, when you're walking through this journey with you, julie, did you start to implement taste and stuff at home first, before you started working with patients and going ah, this really works on me, this really works in my, in my marriage, this really works with my children, and then take that into your practice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I think it happened kind of parallel, right. I don't know if I could separate the two, but but yeah, I mean I think it's to be honest with you. It's easier to do it in the practice because it's the there's not so much on the line. You know how it is with your own. You know you're more triggered and because there's more on the line with your kids, you're you're more afraid of. You know how they'll turn out right. So it's harder.
Speaker 2:You get more triggered when something doesn't go right with a client. You're in this contained environment, you're with them for an hour. They're not in your real life, so you have a. It's a little less stressful, right. But yeah, I mean, I definitely I guess I I would have to say that doing this as a job absolutely helps me do it with my family, and I'm not giving my family therapy, but I am a professional at giving emotional support, because as a therapist, we have to be able to be emotionally supportive, otherwise we can't do the therapy because no one will feel safe with us.
Speaker 2:So it's really about creating safety, creating validation, creating a non-judgmental environment, creating a non-shaming environment, helping people make sense of themselves, and that is where you go into kind of processing their old stuff, right, but you don't. But that's not where you're starting. You're starting from just this foundation of helping this person know that they're accepted, know that they can be open with you, know that they can trust you to hold what they bring to you so that they're able to be open and honest. And those are the exact skills that need to people need to be bringing into their family lives, and we're just not. We're just not you know.
Speaker 1:So number one why aren't we? We just, we just hasn't been modeled. We don't understand what that looks like.
Speaker 2:I think it hasn't been modeled. We don't know what it looks like. We don't know what it sounds like. There's so much confusing, confusing, sorry information out there about how to make relationships work. We hear about boundaries. We start to like go and implement these boundaries, but we're doing it in these emotionally unsafe ways. Or we try to be super emotionally safe but lose our boundaries and nobody knows what the hell to do.
Speaker 1:I mean, pardon my so when you say, when you say we set boundaries but we do it in an emotionally unsafe way, walk me through that Like. What does that look like in a conversation, in a partnership that's, we're trying to set boundaries but we're doing it in an unemotional or unhealthy emotional way?
Speaker 2:It's basically sending a, setting a boundary, while giving the message you're the enemy. I need to protect myself from you, right? As opposed to we're on the same team and we need to get this right and I need to feel safe and I need you to communicate. Help me, you know. Help me with communicating in a different way so I can feel close to you, because I want to feel close to you and that's what I'm going for here is health and closeness, instead of I have to keep you over here and protect me from you and you're invading my boundaries right now.
Speaker 2:And you know, that kind of it's a flavor, more than just specific words, although I can give you the specific words, but it's just. It's almost like a mindset. And so when you have someone who's experienced a lot of emotional trauma whether it's big T trauma or just little thousands of, you know, paper cuts there's a lot of protect. You know, you walk through life with this protective stance, and so if you start setting boundaries out of that protective stance, it's not going to go anywhere good, because nobody wants the message hey, I'm the enemy here. My partner has to protect themselves from me, right? And so the the reframe is is I love you. I love this relationship. I'm on the side of this relationship. I'm trying to protect us from poor communication.
Speaker 1:I love that. So, because I was going to ask the question where does that come from? And you said it it's. It's the, you know, big T, little T, the thousand cuts.
Speaker 1:Somebody that's listening to this podcast today, julie, who may not, may not follow you or may not. This language is very different to them. What are some ways that they can identify in their language? Man, I've got some because I shared a little bit off camera with you about my story. I had no idea for 43 years, or for 40 years I had lived with trauma, had no idea until my therapist said how do you think that's affected your relationship with women in your life and who are supposed to love and protect you? And I was like it just clicked, oh aha moment, got out of the car 10 minutes after, you know, my girlfriend had picked me up at the airport in San Francisco and got my suitcase and left and it was just like, oh my gosh, like this has been something that's been in my heart and I had no idea it was there. How, how can people identify that, that that's something that's in their heart or part of their life that they don't even know is there?
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, if you're having relationship problems there's something there, you know. There's something there you have. If you know people and listen, relationship problems are normal, right, everybody, the healthiest people out there, the healthiest couple out there, are going to bump up against problems. It's just the difference between health and lack of health. Big picture is how are we repairing this, how are we moving through this and how are we growing from it? Right and but so, with that said, if you're having relationship problems that you seem to be stuck in, that you're kind of stuck in these same patterns that you and your partner you know have have more, more moments of not feeling close and you're comfortable with, or these ongoing problems and that you can't seem to find any resolution for and they just keep rearing their ugly heads, then that's a really good sign that you have some level of emotional trauma that hasn't been resolved inside of you, that you haven't learned to communicate through, that's showing up in your relationship.
Speaker 2:And when I say trauma, again, it doesn't have to be these big, you know, acute events that it can just be growing up in a home with a real subtle level of emotional lack of support, just not feeling validated, not learning to talk through your feelings, being punished or shamed, you know, instead of having someone kind of be curious about what was happening for you when you you know through the toy at your brother it's not okay to throw toys like we slip boundaries around that. But help me understand what was happening for you so I can be there to help you through those painful feelings instead of sending you a way to be on your own without them. So if you had that type of environment and you really didn't learn to kind of help yourself in your own dark places, you certainly don't know how to help your partner in their dark places. So we have these two partners that come together and are really struggling with all this stuff inside, don't know what to do with it, and it all starts to get acted out in the relationship.
Speaker 1:So how long? How long in the process, julie, of you going back getting your master's degree, did it take for you, in your own relationship with your husband and your kids, to go? I've got to handle on this Like I'm understanding how to communicate, understanding to recognize inside of me the things that are, that came from my childhood or my past.
Speaker 2:Well, I had I mean, I had been going to therapy on and off for 20 years up to that point, so I knew, and I'd been reading a lot of books, so I knew something about it. But I would say about you know, like maybe six months into the process I really started to kind of get a better grip on what was, you know, the root of things and how to do things differently. And that just kept you know. Like I said, I just kept getting better and better and better at it.
Speaker 1:And in in in this process your writing books, really wanting to help. Obviously, your Instagram accounts got over a million followers, but you're really you're making a difference in the relationships of other people. Talk to me about the book you've got coming out at the end of January, the Secure Love Book, and really kind of where that came from in you, and talk a little bit about what it's going to provide for the reader and for couples that are out there looking to get and become the the, the healthiest version of themselves.
Speaker 2:Sure. So this all starts with, like I said, attachment theory. Right, which is the the idea, the theory that explains relationships in, in my opinion, in the opinion of many other people in my field, in the best way science has ever come right, which is we need to feel close and connected to our safest, closest others in order to feel fully okay in the world. Right, we're, we're wired for that to be. We are humans, our social animals. We're not meant to be out in the world on our own. We need each other for help with, you know, eating and shelter and all sorts of things, and so we're wired to have this connection. And when those connections get ruptured, we're wired to feel stress and anxiety. And so what happens is is people are walking around with ruptures in their bodies of, and that is stress and anxiety, and these ruptures can be very early rooted, right, and we're going around trying to get somehow these ruptures repaired within us. That we don't know how, and you know it creates this big mess. And so what happens is is that's called insecure attachment, it's when you never really had the experience of feeling secure in a relationship fully secure. And so what happens is is that can manifest either as an anxious attachment or an avoidant attachment, and I I explain all of this in the book very clearly.
Speaker 2:And then people come together in relationships with these insecure attachments, right, and from that place everything can start out great, because they haven't had conflict, they haven't had any reasons to kind of feel unsafe with each other or not trust each other. Next thing, you know, inevitable conflicts arise, because that's what happens between two people and they start getting in these negative cycles, right. So they start trying to work through these relationship problems in these negative cycles. By the way that they're protesting, getting defensive, counter blaming, calling names, you know any. We could all relate to all of these things that we do when we're in a fight or argument with our partner. The negative cycles then make the attachment worse. You know, we kind of tear each other apart every time we go into this and on top of that it gets in the way of solving any real problems, because all of a sudden now we're talking about emotional safety, not who's doing the dishes. So let me ask?
Speaker 1:let me ask you a question what are some ground rules a couple can set as a couple when we argue here's some things that we do and here's some things that we don't do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's what I do in the book is basically that I start out, you know, with how the insecure attachment fuels the negative cycles, and then we go into one, interrupting them to preventing them, and three, repairing them. And so in that you know, chapter about how to, kind of I can't remember what chapter it is, but I say here's how to bring up concerns and here's how to respond to your partner's concerns. So that's step one, right? How are we bringing these concerns to each other? First of all, we want to bring them from a place of self.
Speaker 2:Sometimes we call we hear this called I statements. I don't love the term I statements because I think you can use the word you and still be generally, you know, self-focused. But it's something like here's what's going on with me, right? I understand you're busy at night. In the day, I understand you get exhausted at work and the last thing you want to do is come home and help me with the dishes and it makes sense to me and I know we have different standards about those things but to at the same time, I start to get stressed and overwhelmed when they're not taking care of it at night, because then when I get up in the morning, you know, and so that's what's happening for me, kind of how can we work together on this right? That's a very different approach and I have it kind of outlined in the book like this is why you say these things, this is why it works, this is why it's attachment friendly, as opposed to you never help me around the house, you know, do you even care about my needs?
Speaker 2:And then there's also, you know, we want that the receiving partner to be responsive to that. Even if they don't necessarily agree to do things in a certain way or not do things in a certain way, how can they be responsive to what their partner is bringing to them in a way that doesn't involve defensiveness? Well, look at you, you never helped me with X, y and Z, and how come you never notice what I get right around here? And you know. So we need to get. Basically, we're eliminating protest behaviors, blaming behaviors, defensive behaviors, shutting down behaviors, counter blame and these are all these negative cycle dialogue that really gets couples stuck. And so not only am I saying, hey, you know, here's why this stuff doesn't work, it's really emotionally unsafe. Here's what to do and why. And when you start communicating in that way, then what happens is you start building up secure attachment.
Speaker 1:So if you're listening to this podcast and you have never read a book, you've never been to a therapist, you've never done it, you have no idea who you are. And you and they're going in a guise because I have a lot of men who didn't listen to this podcast. A lot of entrepreneurs are like that's my wife, you never helped me with the disses, you never helped me with this. Yep, what's a good response when they go home today? But they can take back to their wife when their wife says you never do this or you always leave me in the kitchen. You always. Because again, the woman doesn't want to wake up the next morning and feel like she's behind the eight ball because she didn't really take her kitchen. She wants to wake up afresh and has a brand new date. What are some things couples can say to each other if that's the language they go home to tonight?
Speaker 2:Okay, Tell me more about this. Clearly, this is important to you. Okay, Help me understand. It's going to help me hear you better if I hear more about how you're impacted by this than you kind of coming at me hot with all these accusations. So can I? I want to be able to hear you in the best way possible. So can we try this in a new way? What is it like for you when the dishes aren't done?
Speaker 2:I just want to understand that, Okay, and kind of give that space to just let them know hey, it's safe to bring up a concern and it's safe. We want to reward them for talking about them and how they're impacted instead of you, you, you, you, you, Right. And so, first of all, helping them know you're going to be heard, I'm going to be able to hear you, and here's how you can help me hear you. And then you know, okay, let's kind of sit on this right and then come up, you know later. It's like, once you sort of develop that safety and you just let someone know you're going to hear them and you're going to be responsive to them and you care about their feelings, some sort of solution will emerge from that, Right, and I don't know what.
Speaker 1:Fosters openness and communication, absolutely. My partner cares about me and holding space. One of the things I learned that I did not do in my marriage well, for 27 years and literally I read a book by GS Youngblood called the masculine relationship was to hold space feminine. Yeah, obviously, women get a little, get a little elevated, because they're emotional creatures. Sure, for me, I came from a background where I wanted to explain or explain or defend. Here's why I didn't do this, here's what this is, instead of just going I hear you Right? And giving a woman a safe place to be heard and into first life, right it's.
Speaker 2:You know I'll take that word heard to a different, a deeper level validated.
Speaker 2:That makes sense to me. You know everybody wants validation and what that would sound like in this situation is I really do get it. I get that it's. You know it creates anxiety for you when you don't go to bed with the dishes done and I'm really understanding that that's kind of stressful for you and I know what stress feels like and I'm really sorry that that's how your experience has been. How can we kind of help each other with that?
Speaker 2:It doesn't mean giving up your own needs Right, you might have your own things to say about it, Like maybe you are more comfortable, you know, with a little bit more mess in the morning, and so how can we kind of meet each other? It doesn't mean one partner has to sort of sit there and accommodate every partners. They're partners every whim. But when you can meet each other and really provide that support, hearing, validation, holding that space, people start to get way more flexible because they're not fighting for the dishes need and they're not fighting for their need to feel cared for, validated, appreciated, seen, understood at the same time.
Speaker 1:So the validation really is a key to bringing the wall down so you can have an healthy communication.
Speaker 2:It's everything, yeah, I think if you really kind of boiled down my entire learning experience, you know from my master's degree and you know you were asking where is that point? The point was when I really figured out how powerful emotional validation is and that it changes everything Once you learn to do it from a place, from your heart, and it requires you know, empathy and the ability to communicate your feelings. So there are some kind of micro skills involved in really being able to successfully validate. But that's really where it's at and that's if you, if I were to kind of put you know secure love into a one word sentence, it would be how to use emotional validation to improve your entire life.
Speaker 1:So good, out of the, I believe there's four different attachment styles, correct? What do you see? What do you see one more than you see others?
Speaker 2:I think that anxious and avoidant are far are by far the most common. I mean theoretically there's, you know, statistically, and these statistics are maybe 10 to 15 years old, so I'm not sure how accurate they are anymore. I think they're probably well, half 50% secure of the population and then the other 50% is divided amongst mostly anxious and avoidant and then a small portion disorganized. I think if we were to really dive into those statistics now, we would see less secure and we would see more disorganized because of the way trauma just perpetuates itself through the generations. And so what I see, you know, a good 99% of the time, and the couples I work with, is very clear anxious, avoidant couple. One partner is the anxious partner, usually the female, 75% of the time, 25% male is not a small number, just to put it out there. If you're a male anxious partner, you're normal, and then the male is. A lot of times the male is avoided. So this anxious type and this avoidant type, they come together for a really good reason.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of an emotional balancing act that comes from that dynamic and so, yeah, so that's what I most I say I was going to ask you do you see that, like the avoidance and the anxious, they're the ones you tend to gravitate towards when you're searching for a partner?
Speaker 1:I mean is that because you hear people say a lot, and I've heard my, you know, one of my therapists say this you know, the more that I work on myself, it seems like the healthier partners that I attract, or the people is I'm in kind of in that journey. Is that something you would say is?
Speaker 2:Oh for sure. Yeah, I think that first of all, we start to recognize, you know, the in people, what we're hoping for in our cell, or I don't know if that's the exact right way to say that, but like we're drawn to our more or less our own level of psychological and emotional health because we know, we know what to look for, we know what feels right, we know what feels familiar. And then there's just something to be said for, you know, anxious partners tend to, their emotional imbalance is over feeling, over not necessarily over feeling, but over reacting to their own feelings, I would say right. So they tend to follow their emotions down rabbit holes and when, when under stress, whereas avoid it.
Speaker 1:No, go ahead, Go ahead.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, Well, whereas avoid it, they tend to cut their emotions off, shut them off right when under stress. So if you're the type of person that you're cutting your emotions off and you don't go around feeling much and you meet this person with an anxious attachment, who's just passionate and you know can really enjoy life and full of emotions, it's like, hey, that kind of balances me out right. If you have this anxious attachment, you're sort of always overwhelmed by your feelings and always following these rabbit holes. It can feel very safe to have someone who's got more emotion, perceived emotional stability than you, but both but the truth is is both are out of balance. They're just kind of using each other subconsciously as a way to balance themselves.
Speaker 1:So, on an anxious attachment, what are some things that a person can do if they find themselves always in their feelings or always in their emotions? What are some things that they can do for themselves and what are some? Let me we say that people go. What does that mean? Like, does that mean I think about the guy that I'm dating or I think about the girl that I'm dating and I make up stories if she doesn't answer me or text me back, or he doesn't text me back or walk me through exactly what that looks like.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I think that if you're, if you're single, you know whether you're single or not. The first step for the person with an anxious attachment is learning to self regulate, really, because you've got to be able to get yourself out of the fear that anxious attachment is is you're constantly living in fear. Or even if you aren't constantly living in fear, it that that switch gets flipped so easily when there's some sort of relationship threat and you just instantly go into that fear anxious and then you start acting from that place and it's like something might say what if they don't like me? And then the next thing you know, you're going to your phone and checking your phone obsessively, right and so at right at that point when you you need to really learn to recognize why am I going to that phone right now? What feeling am I trying to escape by going to that phone? I'm trying to escape fear. I'm trying to.
Speaker 2:There's probably some grief in there, you know, and you really need to learn to sit with those feelings instead of acting them out in these anxious ways. And in sitting with the feelings, that's where you kind of find the answers to what am I really needing right now, and that's the self regulation part, and it could be breathing exercises, it could be going on a walk, it could be calling a friend it. You know, there's an any number of things that we can do to learn, to deal, to sit with, to feel and deal with our feelings without going up into these. You know, following these rabbit holes right.
Speaker 1:And so on the on the avoidance side, what is something someone who struggles with avoidance Like literally they have? They've learned to shut their feelings off so they don't have to feel.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 2:So their job is to learn to emotionally engage. They need to become more engaged with their feelings. Their feelings are already there, Otherwise we wouldn't have anything to cut off, right they're. They're managing those feelings by distracting, by overworking, so they can have a sense of feeling successful, by shutting down during arguments so things don't get worse. They're all. They're kind of constantly in a state of sort of staving away the anxiety that's actually really there, and so their work is to start to engage with it more, start to allow their body to feel it, to start finding it where because emotions don't exist in our head, they exist in our body. I mean, they're chemical things that happen in our brain that create this or just throughout our body, and, as you know, you're familiar with somatic work, so you know this. But so for the avoidance, it's the first step.
Speaker 2:When I'm working with someone with avoidant attachment is help me understand when at that moment she says you never help around the house. What happens in your body? That's the first step. What happens where? Oh well, I start to get you know, I start to get mad. Where's the anger sit inside of you? Is it in your chest? And so once we can kind of find that bodily sensation. We can start naming it, we can start getting to know it a little more. We can start helping them put words to it right. We can start helping them say you know, when you come at me like that, that's when I start to get really scared because I think, oh, you think I'm a failure, or oh, you're trying to control me. And then I don't know what to do with that big feeling. So my go to is just to shut it off. So you see me disengage. But what's really happening is I'm just trying in that moment to keep things from getting worse.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that. Talk a little bit about the book. It's coming out January the 30th. I know it's been a passion project for you to be able to get out and to be able to help people. What are a couple of things I know we can talk about? The attachment styles, one of some other things that maybe a one or two nuggets out of the book that would help our audience today.
Speaker 2:Well, it's it's. I'm going to explain the attachment styles but, more importantly, I'm going to help you understand. Here's what you do with all this information Like. This information is great, I mean it's very helpful to understand ourselves and have all this insight why we're doing these things that we're doing. But none of that really matters if we're not getting a lot of really clear guidance as to how to get out of these patterns. And I am, you know, very qualified to provide that, because that's what I do day in and day out. I mean, my number one, number one passion in life is doing this work with help.
Speaker 2:Actually helping couples through this and in the book parallels the work that I do with couples in my private practice. It's the same structure, you know. It's very I have a very structured way of working. There's a you know sequence of events, so to speak, and so I kind of do that in the book and it's also the work that I do in my personal life. So it's very much tried and tested on my end.
Speaker 2:And you know, I know there are just so many people out there that either just don't have access to couples therapy, for whatever reason, or don't have access to quality couples therapy. I mean, there's a lot of couples therapy out there that, can you know, not either not work real well or make things worse, and so I'm kind of trying to get around that. So I'm just, this is just a gift from my heart. That's like, hey, you know, here's what I have to offer to people who either want to augment the couple of therapy that they're doing or don't have any other source of reliable help. And I think this is cutting edge information. There's not a lot. There's a lot out there on attachment theory. There's not a ton out there on really kind of what to do with it in the depth that I've provided. Right, I love that.
Speaker 1:Right, I love that. Two questions I don't know if you've ever had these questions asked. Sure, were you surprised by the influence and the growth in your social media platform.
Speaker 2:Yes and no. I've always known that I have a special voice. There's just been something inside of me that I don't in this arena where I work, I just kind of feel like there's. I always felt like I understand this in a way that other people I'm observing don't. I just kind of, and I think I was kind of born with a little bit of that insight. You know, like we all are born with certain strengths, and so it doesn't surprise me that I ended up with this voice.
Speaker 2:But it does kind of surprise me how it happened, because I didn't have a clue about Instagram. Like I just it was so foreign to me and someone talked me into starting an Instagram account and I was so clueless about it that I didn't really realize you had to put a post up, Right? I was like, oh, you can't just have an account, you actually have to post something. And so I was like, well, what do I know? I know attachment theory, so I just started making these little hand drawings and to help people understand. And so, yeah, I'm a little, I was a little. I'm a little surprised that I ended up in the social media world, but I'm not surprised that I have a voice, because I've I know, I've always known that I have a special voice in this area.
Speaker 1:So Talk to me about fulfillment, Fulfillment. Fulfillment is a huge thing for me. Yeah, Not just, you know, success, financial success making it, but the fulfillment that you feel, Julie, from being able to do what you do and impact and help so many people, which is not just at that surface level but it literally can be generational. Talk to me about that fulfillment you feel from that.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, what just came through my head and I could. I'm sure there are many ways to fine tune this, but in my mind there's one way to get to fulfillment is creativity. You know, I think for me it's. I feel very fulfilled when I have the creative outlet. Two is being successful. That helps me feel fulfilled financially, helping people, whatever, however, you want to define successful, really spiritual fulfillment, feeling a connection to something bigger than yourself, having some sort of you know, kind of like support that's always there and bigger than you know what. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:But then there's this, and I think a lot of people are able to get to those three right now, like, but then there's this fourth, with which is real, true human connection, intimacy. And I think a lot of people are really having a hard time getting there and one of the reasons is that they don't have that within themselves, right, and they're just, you know, we're kind of like settling for all this pseudo intimacy and there's there's just this deep connection with other human possibility out there that I think a lot of people really aren't, aren't fulfilling, and so they're, they're kind of falling into what they know. Well, I can be successful. I'm going to just do more of that right, but there's always just sort of this like emptiness, you know, or I can be creative and you know so yeah, they find an outlet that they're good at because they're not good at.
Speaker 1:They're not good at one area, which is the intimacy. It's crazy. I did a, I did a, I did a podcast one time and I walked into a restaurant in Atlanta with a friend of mine and there was like eight girls sitting at a table together, all together, and they were all on their phones, looking at their phones, not paying attention to any of the eight girls. I literally walked over there. I wouldn't recommend people do this. I did not know them.
Speaker 1:I took the girls phone out of her hand and I put it face down the table and I was like hey, ladies, y'all do realize y'all have, y'all are all friends and y'all are here together. And they looked at me at first like what is this dude doing? But then after about five minutes I looked back over and I looked back over and they're all off their phones and they're actually having conversations face to face with the people. And that's really, again, I don't recommend people do that. But I would just like come on, guys, like you're, all your friends are here in your own social media talking to friends that aren't here. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And I think that's part of it Best way, Julie, for people to connect with you and find out about the new book that's coming out at the end of the month.
Speaker 2:Well, I have my Instagram is my kind of main feed, which is at the secure relationship. There are a lot of imposter accounts, so make sure to look for that blue check and then my website, or, you know, probably my personal not my personal website, but Julie Minanocom. So I have Julie Minanocom and the secure relationshipcom.
Speaker 1:Yeah, got you and then we'll also. For those of you guys listening to the podcast, we'll drop a link on here. You can go to Amazon find Julie's book Secure Love. January the 30th Is that correct January 30th.
Speaker 1:yes, January 30th. So help Julie get a push to become a New York Times bestselling author. She's making. You really are making a difference around the world and this is the first conversation you and I have ever had face to face, but I just know in my own life and then in being able to take the information that I learned from you, even if it's just simply sharing your posts, just on this journey for me of self-discovery and big T, little T, and then really trying to become the best version of myself at 55 years old and being single in this world that I'm in and on some of the platforms that I'm on and the people that I know being out there in the dating world. And these streets are whoa, these streets are a little crazy.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, I can't even imagine. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1:It is. It is something else. Do you do you, january 30th, secure Love guys? We'll share this, julie. Last thoughts for our audience.
Speaker 2:Last thoughts. You know I just appreciate everybody out there who's who's willing to listen and open to you know, finding finding true intimacy and really kind of recognizing the value, even though you might be super successful in all these parts of your life and business, and there's so much value in learning to have really strong, beautiful, healthy connections that you might not really be aware of, and so I appreciate your openness to that.
Speaker 1:So nothing. So if I hear you say this, right, there's nothing like being validated in your relationships, and validated emotionally with the people that are closest to you, even more so than being validated because you've got a great business, sir. You might have a great bank account.
Speaker 2:Exactly yes.
Speaker 1:Well, guys, thank you for joining us on another episode of as the Leader Grows. I am your host, ken Jolson. Julie, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. And, guys, julie's book Secure Love drops January 30th. We'll drop a link on here. You can grab that on Amazon. A couple of things. If this is at a value, do me a favor hit subscribe. Also, if you'll screenshot while you're listening to this, tag me, julie. We'll give you some love on our social media as well and, as always, we'll see you on the next episode of as the Leader Grows.