As The Leader Grows with Ken Joslin

Kathryn Gordon | Developing Relationship GRIT

• Ken Joslin

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What happens when your marriage reaches a breaking point, and how do you bounce back from it with determination and faith? Join me in this powerful episode as I sit down with my dear friend Kathryn Gordon, bestselling author of Relationship Grit, as she bravely shares the story of the challenges she and her husband faced in their marriage, and how they overcame them. From exploring the process of writing her upcoming book, The Secret to a Great Sex Life, to discussing the importance of connection, oneness, and making your partner and your family a priority, this conversation will leave you feeling inspired and empowered.

As we delve deeper into the dynamics of communication between couples, we emphasize the importance of connection and intimacy in building a strong and loving relationship. We also touch on the role of faith in holding relationships together, sharing personal stories of spiritual journeys and the impact of lifestyle changes on mental health. Don't miss out on the valuable insights and heartfelt stories shared in this episode with Kathryn Gordon. Tune in and discover how communication, determination, and faith can transform your relationship into one filled with love and understanding.

Welcome to the ATLG podcast I am your host Ken Joslin, former pastor turned coach & host of CREATE, the #1 Faith-based Entrepreneur conference in America. My mission is to help faith-based entrepreneurs become the best version of themselves by growing in our Core 5: Faith, Health, Relationships, Business & Finances. You can get more information as well as join our FREE Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/676347099851525

If you enjoyed the podcast, come join our FREE GSD Community of hundreds of entrepreneurs & a ton of FREE Content including CREATE Conference recordings with Ken, John Maxwell, Gary Brecka, Ed Mylett & more. growstackdrive.com/free

Speaker 1:

Hey guys, welcome to another episode of as the leader grows, where we are ridiculously passionate about helping business leaders build confidence, gain clarity and create community. I have got a dear friend on the podcast with me today. I had the pleasure of meeting her a couple of months ago at my good friend Amberley Lagos event. The one and only Catherine Gordon. She has Catherine for real podcast bestselling author of relationship grit. She's an executive movie producer. She's got properties. She keeps John Gordon in line. She does it all, catherine. What's up, girl?

Speaker 2:

Hey, so good to be here, ken. Listen, i was thinking about how I was going to start this, but I thought we were not going to go in the direction I was thinking, yet talking about sex. So we'll start. I'm writing a book. So right now I'm in the process of writing a book called The Secret to a Great Sex Life, and it's not what you think. It's not a raunchy kind of how to book. It's really a book about connection and about oneness. But I was going to say something funny when we started. But I'll give you a break and we'll go in. We'll go in lightly.

Speaker 1:

So good. Well, we talked about sex in the first five seconds. I don't know how lightly we're going in this. Hey, quick, take a second and tell our audience a little bit about you and who you are and kind of what you've got going on right now.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so, as Ken said, my name is Katherine Gordon and I wrote the book bestselling book Relationship Grit, and it is a book I co-wrote with my husband, john Gordon, and I always like to tell people it's not a book that is like, oh my gosh, look at me, look at us. We have this amazing relationship. You know, blah, blah, blah. It is a book that shares with you the story of hell that we went through and the trials and tribulations of being married, trying to have a business together, having small children And really we were disastrous And then what we did to finally pull it together and now been married for 26 years and together for 28,. And just to give tips it gives tips and strategies and tools that you can use like real time, that you can use in your relationship to help you have a better relationship.

Speaker 1:

And so we wrote that book. Let's dive right into that really quick because I'm sure if we'll talk about relationship and how you heal your relationship, we'll get to the sex part in just a minute. But like you guys just had an anniversary, right? Did I see pictures?

Speaker 2:

We did We did, we did, we did, we did. And I'll tell you a funny story. The other day we were at well Jay Glazer's house and talking to I think you might have saw this on social media but Brett Michaels was saying he was married 24 years and I was like, yeah, we just celebrated our 24th anniversary And my husband was like, honey, it was 26 years. So of course now that's the run and joke. But yeah, we've been married for 26 years and it wasn't always good.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, But what point of your marriage did you guys come to the realization of? we do not have this figured out. We've got some issues, we've got some work to do. Walk us, walk our audience through that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you know, i think, like most people, when you get into a relationship and then you start to have children, you're so busy and you're so wrapped up in day to day survival right But you're not really even thinking about do. I have a good relationship? And John, you know he was very focused on his career. He was very focused on being successful and definitely didn't make me or his children a priority. And there came a time when we owned a couple of restaurants Well, more than a couple. We started out with one. It's called Moe's Southwest Grill. It's a franchise, and literally we had no money and we had second mortgage to our home.

Speaker 2:

I had given a chunk that you know, the little chunk that I had had from, you know, when my father had passed away, and then a little bit from his, and we were not even making our mortgage at that point. Like we were really headed for bankruptcy pretty soon And John would come in so miserable and just nasty and negative And at that time I was trying to do the bookkeeping behind the scenes. I was doing all this stuff and trying to get it all done before my kids got off the bus And literally one day he walked in and I had done 50 things. There was just one thing that I didn't get done that day. And, of course, what does he do?

Speaker 2:

He asks me about that one thing And I just lost it and I'm like I'm done, i can't do this, and I actually kicked him out And how long into the marriage was that Catherine? So that was about so 2007. That was about nine years into the marriage, yeah, nine or 10 years into the marriage to small children, yep, and you're like you're out of here, pack your bags and leave.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, no, hold on, i'm doing the math here. It's more like seven years when it first, with that first Yeah, actually it was seven years. You know at that point I was willing to do whatever it took And I had made a decision and I talk about this a lot too. You know, with John and I Now I was very much a mover and shaker. When I met John and Atlanta, i was acting, you know, doing a lot of modeling. I was top sales producer for a chemical company, and then I met this guy, john, and then he had just opened a bar and he had a nonprofit called the Phoenix Organization. So there was a lot of events happening in Atlanta at the time And I'll never forget. By this time we were living together and we started to fight over who, whose events were the most important, where were we gonna go and whose was most important.

Speaker 2:

And Ken, in my life, i have to tell you, i had a mom and a dad that had a very volatile relationship. My mother had a seventh grade education and they were both alcoholics. My dad was very much a womanizer And so I watched what my mom had to go through And I would say to her sometimes and, by the way, i love my father. I was, seriously I was a daddy's girl. He was the most amazing man because it was just the alcohol, right. But I remember saying to my mom why do you stay? And she said where am I gonna go? I have nothing to do. So my point of telling you that is my thing in life was I will never, ever be in a situation that I can't leave.

Speaker 2:

So here I was and I had made this decision, going back to that with John of whose career was gonna be more important And for whatever reason, as much as I had always said I wouldn't be beholden to someone else, i decided that I needed to get behind John And I quit my job.

Speaker 2:

I got behind him, i started supporting him, i started getting him booked. He had written the energy bus and I started getting him booked speaking gigs, and so it was a real risk I was taking on him. But here I was, fast forward, like I said, at this time where I'm like I can't do this anymore And I thought it doesn't matter, i will go, i'll go wait tables, i'll do whatever it takes to not be with you and not deal with this kind of behavior. And he left, then he started calling and then he finally came back and he actually got on his hands and knees, not just to beg me to stay, but he prayed to God And he said God, please help me. Please help me be the man that I need to be for my wife and my children and you. And so that really started a transformation in him, which ultimately started a transformation in our marriage.

Speaker 1:

How much strength did that take for you to be able to say, hey, listen, we gotta have some space.

Speaker 2:

You know what? That's huge. Yeah, it took a lot of strength, but when you get to that point, when you really just cannot take anymore, yeah, and there was another point in my relationship that I did wanna leave John. We can talk about that too. But so fast forward, john had, he was Jewish and ended up finding out about Jesus. He started learning about this Jesus guy, as he says, and a lot of really amazing things happen in that. That's his story to share. But in that he did start to become a better man and a better father.

Speaker 2:

So fast forward, it's 14 years later in our marriage And at this point we have a better marriage. It's not amazing, right? But he was now. He's traveling all over the country, speaking, he's got the energy bus, he's got several other books out. But I went to lunch and I talk about this, actually I've talked about this in my talk but I went to lunch with some girlfriends And one of my girlfriends was cheating on her husband And the other one was getting a divorce. And I gotta tell you this was a couple, ken. We used to play tennis with them. They were always holding hands, they were always kissing and John had to kind of feel like we weren't too much on the public display.

Speaker 1:

The PDA.

Speaker 2:

But you know what? They were getting a divorce, and so I left that lunch feeling really, really insecure and fearful about our relationship.

Speaker 1:

You were I guess you were almost like shocked, And then if they didn't make it I don't have much of a chance, because they on the outside look like they've got it all together.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I'm thinking, okay, this doesn't feel right, Like I need to have a conversation with my husband. So John gets home, we go on a walk on the beach And I'm pouring my heart out like, oh my gosh, this is happening and she's having an affair. And you know, I'm just not really feeling connected, You and I, and he stops dead in his tracks, turns and looks at me and says I have something to tell you. Proceeds to tell me I cheated on you when we first got married. So here I'm telling him how distraught I am about my friends getting a divorce, And now he's telling me something that now makes me wanna divorce him.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and then, ken, you'll get to know John better, but when you do, you'll know he doesn't always have the best timing on me. That's what I'm saying. Like he's so, like you know, he just didn't catch some of those cues right, like, oh, maybe this wouldn't be a good time to tell your wife that. So yeah, and so I wanted to leave him. I was leaving him, i tried to cheat on him and it wouldn't happen. That's a whole weird gum.

Speaker 1:

I remember you told me a little bit about that when we were in North Carolina.

Speaker 2:

You showed me that story.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so you're walking through and you had two instances where, literally, your marriage almost ended. What was the thing inside you that kept? what was it that kept Hope alive on the inside of Catherine Gordon to be able to keep this marriage together? And obviously, where you guys are at now, it's just a completely different place.

Speaker 2:

That's a good question. I think it was two things. The first one is I never forgot the guy that I had fell in love with. So I would always kind of go back to that sweet, thoughtful man that he was when I first met him and when I first got married to him and I knew it was in there. And I think the other part of that is I did grow up in an alcoholic home and it was pretty volatile at times, but both my parents were very much functional alcoholics, meaning very hard workers.

Speaker 2:

My father was a naval aviator. He was training 150,000, 150 pilots at a time to fly. So you got up in the morning, you acted like nothing happened and you just kept going, and so I learned that And I honestly think it's a little bit of my superpower now, right. So that thing, that was not good at the time, i'll tell you. I think it's what made me number one in sales, because I could get rejected, i could get knocked down. But I'm coming back and I had short-term memory. So I you know we just forget about the bad stuff or the failures, and so I think it kept me with John too. You know that I just kept plowing ahead.

Speaker 1:

What were some of the things that you guys did together after that second time to, really? because I mean, i've passed her for a long time 15 years And I tell people all the time I've never seen a marriage where each person each person and a couple were willing to work on their own issues. I've never seen a marriage like that not thrive. But I've also never seen a marriage where one of them go nope, not touching any area of my life. Either they're miserable or the marriage doesn't make it. And obviously this was a time for both of you guys to go hey, it's not just John, it's not just Catherine. Both of you had to take an independent time, look in the mirror and go okay, what does Catherine Gordon need to work on? Walk me through that process for you.

Speaker 2:

Can you set it? And actually that is the T in my grit acronym. So my book is called Relationship Grit and the T stands for Together. So I haven't gone through the GRI, but I will say the T Together or Team, you have to want, you have to wanna work on your relationship. You have to do it together And it doesn't mean that it's always equal.

Speaker 2:

Like I always say, you can't keep score, you can't say, well, i'm giving more than you. Now, if it's always one sided, that's a problem. But you're right, you're absolutely right, as I've talked to couples and you saying, you know I'm sure you've counseled so many If both people aren't willing to work on the relationship, it's not gonna work. Now I have seen some women pray, pray, pray I can't explain it and work on their side And then the man changes and does decide to work. Those things have happened. But yes, you're right, Basically, if you both don't want it, it's not gonna work.

Speaker 2:

And in our relationship that was something I do need to give John credit for. Now I'm gonna tell you John was depressed. He was, yeah, definitely had some issues And I at that time I was like, look, you've got to go on medication or you've got to do something And he said give me some time, give me some time to work on this myself. And I have to give him credit for this, and you know I'm and it now makes me say, listen, before we automatically resort to taking medications, look at the other things in your life or your lifestyle, because chances are there are things that can change, that can help you, even chemically.

Speaker 2:

But he started walking all the time and praying And he did this whole thing. He changed his diet and he actually changed his mental state where he wasn't depressed And he has not had bouts of depression like that since. Of course, you know there are times we all get down, but yeah, so he did that and he was willing to work on himself And actually that's when he started diving into, you know, the positivity and the mindset and that was when he really is, really his speaking and writing kind of took off, because that started to be what he knew.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Well, talk to me about your faith. I know, john. I was with John and our good friend Irwin McManus at Irwin's Mastermind in LA this past week And we got to spend some time together And I know the faith component was big for John and for you. Talk to your audience a little bit about how that faith kind of held you guys together.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, 100% him becoming a Christian. And I have to tell you, like my background I was Catholic, and but not like a practicing Catholic. I didn't. I was never. I never did you know the catechism or any of the schools that that you know you normally have to do as a Catholic. I went to church on Christmas and Easter And so when John started to to study Christianity and come to me with stories or share things with me, it started to open up my eyes a lot more to what it really is.

Speaker 2:

And I had a great aunt that, in the midst of all the chaos in our family and the alcoholism and the fighting and the craziness, i had an aunt. It was my dad's aunt, it was great aunt And she was a practicing Catholic but like in the most beautiful way, like she really exhibited what Jesus stands for. And so I had had that in the periphery and I would observe and watch that. But you know, day to day that's not what you see in church, unfortunately. And so so as John started to you know, learn and grow in his faith, he started to share it with me And so we started to do it together. And so brings me actually to the acronym GRIT again with my book, because the G in GRIT stands for God. So you gotta bring God into your relationship. And I gotta tell you something really cool about this When I first wrote this book and I came up with the acronym, i did have some apprehension about saying God.

Speaker 2:

I'll admit it, like I'll confess that, because the one thing I didn't wanna do was turn people away from my book and away from helping their relationship because of God, because, let's face it, so many people have different issues with religion And so I almost made excuses for it in the beginning, and now I'm a little embarrassed about that, but I'm gonna share that with you because every single time somebody reads my book or I talk about it, matter of fact, i was at Jay's Jay Glaciers the other day and I was talking to a group of women. They were not Christians but they were asking about my book And I went through my acronym, g R I T G being God, and I started to almost make an excuse like it's and if you don't believe it, but I just kept going. Do you know? two of those women pulled me aside later on as a group later on, and they go. I just got to tell you. I really loved the G And I hear that all the time, so it is, it's an interesting, you know, like I was worried about it being the thing that turns people off. So anyway, to answer your question, the G So one of the things that John did after he had, you know, admitted his infidelities to me and I wanted to leave him.

Speaker 2:

John was on a plane and he ends up meeting some guy and you know how this is when you're on a plane, he's sitting next to the guy, never met him before, and just starts pouring his heart out. Like you know, i cheated on my wife when we first met. You know she wants to leave me and this is an older gentleman and he said actually I had something very similar happened to me in my own life and my own relationship And we came up with a prayer. So I think you need to come up with a prayer and say that prayer every day with your wife.

Speaker 2:

And so John did come up with a prayer, and you want me to tell you what it is Yeah, I would love to hear that All right.

Speaker 2:

So it's God. We invite you into our marriage and family to love us, to heal us, to unite us, to strengthen us so we can grow strong together and serve you together and raise children that glorify and honor you. And you know, early on he would say that prayer and I would not say it with him. He would say it and I would not say it with him, and I give him a lot of credit. And I say this because here's the thing We all make mistakes in our relationship. No one's perfect. The one thing I will give John credit for, and anybody listening to this that has or is in a situation where they've done something wrong Hear this loud and clear.

Speaker 2:

After John confessed his infidelities to me, obviously my trust was shattered And, as he fought to get our relationship and get me back and would say this prayer, the other thing that he would do is, no matter what question I had, it didn't matter, and I'm not proud of this. I got to tell you this. I'm not. It doesn't feel good to be the person that says let me see your phone, who are you texting, who are you calling. But I was there, and so I went through a period where I would look at his emails, i would spontaneously grab his phone. I was trying to catch him Right. I was trying to catch him in something And I know a lot of times I've heard it over and over that you know, whoever that offender was in the relationship ends up getting mad, or I don't want to do this, and then it ends up causing. It's like more.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, if you did something wrong and you're trying to build trust, that's a part of it. I mean not everybody's going to be that way I was, but I got to tell you I give him so much credit because it was through that that I was able to continually see that he truly was who he said he was and is now. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

That's good And that helped you build trust back together. So talk to me about the book. John's been a very successful author and you you want to write a book on relationship grit. Walk, walk me through that. How long has that been in the works?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you know, i'll tell you what started to happen. I truly believe it's a God thing, like I think he was just directing, you know, me through all of this. But because it's, it's funny when I look at the timing, like it didn't happen before, when I was raising my kids and I was in all the chaos after my son went off to college, i would go to the grocery store or you know the shopping mall and I'd end up running into, say, a parent that I had known from when my son was playing tennis or my daughter was playing lacrosse and inevitably and I don't know why they would, you know, corner me. A woman. It was, it was mostly women, there were a couple of men and they would corner me and say, like you know, we're headed for divorce or you know, we're really in a bad place.

Speaker 2:

And I kept hearing these stories over and over again And I started asking, really, what I thought was were basic questions Oh so did you tell them that? that bothered you? Did you communicate that? And so many, so many times It was like no, and what I realized is very, very basic things that should have been happening in the relationship weren't, first of all, communication Like so what was really shocking to me is that that couples could be married for so long and actually not communicate.

Speaker 1:

What do you think is the biggest breakdown in the communication, Catherine? What do you think is the number one thing Couples have to hurdle to be able to communicate efficiently and to where they understand each other?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you know, i got to tell you. What I found, as I've started talking to so many couples, is it's not just one thing, personalities play a key role. You might have somebody in the relationship that just does not like conflict Troubles okay, not yourself, but with eachamp's brief, your sister, we will have you address So discussion. And so they never want to speak up, like you know. Be aware of the couple that says they never, ever fight. You know so. So there are different reasons for why, why people don't communicate, but everybody can, and there is a way, and what I always say is that ask your partner On a scale of one to 10. How well do I communicate with you and what would make it a 10.? Like simple things. A matter of fact, my, i have an action guide. It's a free plan. It really should be a whole course that I go through and you can just start to ask these questions of your partner. And, and so it is.

Speaker 2:

It is hard to do And I think I think another thing, like for John, okay. So something I realized with John when he would walk in the door from work And if I would just bombard him right away, i wasn't getting anywhere. There were going to be issues And so I would. I knew, I started to know, and some of this it comes with emotional maturity, right, and you know, because we can, I mean I can go on the attack and just to say, all right, i'm going to give them 20 minutes to unwind And then maybe we'll go for a walk. If you have little children and you can't do that, you know could be as simple as just sitting on it, you know whatever it is, and just start to have the conversations. Because when you can just start to have the little conversations, the connection, because you can't connect If you're not communicating. Right, so you got it. It's really the four C's which are in my book Communicate, connect, which leads to more commitment And care.

Speaker 1:

Which leads to a great sex life. Am I wrong It?

Speaker 2:

leads to a great sex life, which is what I started with Come on girl.

Speaker 1:

It's going to all come full circle before we go, Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And you know again, when I say this, you know and I joke. I was joking with you earlier and I probably shocked you right away. But and I don't really because- Listen, i know you nothing.

Speaker 1:

You say sucks.

Speaker 2:

I know, i know, but you know, like In Tennessee, is a beautiful way for you to connect with your partner And Medically, scientifically, it produces oxy content, oxy content That too, just kidding oxytocin, which actually makes you feel more bonded and more connected to your partner. So I mean, there is really like a chemical thing that's happening And so you know when you're feeling connected and when you're feeling loved. You want To have that intimacy. You know who wants to be Listen. When John was acting the way he was, do you think I wanted to connect with him? Do you think I was like get away from me, right? So it's like The difference of oh, he hears me, he cares about me, he's committed to me, so it makes you want to have It makes you make your partner want to make your partner want to open up.

Speaker 1:

So you guys walk through the relationship grit. I think we went through all the acronyms, the G, r, i, t.

Speaker 2:

Well, we actually did it, All right.

Speaker 2:

So I'm going to go back and I'll do it real quick. So the G is for God and the R is for resolve, which actually I really kind of explained a little bit about when I was talking about resolve. Because in that, when John dropped the bomb on me and told me you know that he had cheated on me, he resolved to keep the marriage together and for me to stay. So what did he do? He continued to say his prayer, to say the prayer, he continued to tell me how much you love me And anytime that I asked for his phone, like he resolved, he did what it took. So that's resolve And that means like you're you're, you're in it to win it, like you're fighting for your relationship. And then the I we didn't really talk about the I And so the I is invest, and you got to invest in your relationship.

Speaker 2:

You know, early on, and I told you, john had a nonprofit. This would happen so many times. We would go to these events and all these people would be there and he would talk so kindly and nice and lovingly to everybody else And we would get in the car and he was so nasty to me And I would say, oh my gosh, would you ever speak to that woman the way you just spoke to me, right? So it really kind of you know, thank God I have a strong personality, because he probably would have eaten somebody alive. And, by the way, if you don't know John Gordon, he really is a great guy. Sometimes I start telling these stories and they're like or they'll start reading my book early in and they're like, i don't like him. I'm like, keep reading, just keep reading.

Speaker 1:

The reality of it is, though. Catherine is like every single one of us. I've pastored so long. Nothing surprises me anymore, but every single one of us have issues. I used to say every Sunday welcome to life church. My name is Yada Yada, yada Yada. If you, if you don't think you have an issue, that's your issue. Every single one of us have things we need to work on.

Speaker 2:

That's exactly right And you know that was the thing when we wrote the book. Funny enough, okay. So we wrote the book and his brother read the book, you know, and it really shares what John was like back then. And his brother said to him Hey, man, you can't, you can't publish this book Like you can't, you can't have people know this about you. And I got to give John a lot of credit. He was like you know what? I need? to let people know that you can change Like that, that we came from this place and that if we could come from this place and transform our marriage, that anybody can do it.

Speaker 1:

And so I give hope to everyone else.

Speaker 2:

I give him a lot of credit for that, because it could have. it could have. it could have went the other way. you know, maybe you never know, i don't know a lot of people who would have, but he did And and thank goodness. you know we hear all the time from couples that it's transformed their relationship. So I just want to go back to I when I say invest, And so when I say you know he was, you know, talking to other people where he should have been talking kindly to me. so many times in our relationships, and sometimes it's just, it's the sheer fact of that, we're just so busy And we leave nothing for our partners by the time we get home. right, we're grinding at work, we're dealing with everybody, and then by the time we get home, but just to keep remembering that you have to invest in your partner first right.

Speaker 2:

That it goes from there. You can't just think you can't be a consumer. Take, take, take, take, take. You got to invest in them, and it can be little things, i mean, you know, i don't know how much time we have. You want me to tell you my?

Speaker 1:

story Five minutes. I would love to hear it.

Speaker 2:

All right. So I went to jail. I've been to jail three times and that's a whole other talk and it's a lot of fun, but I'll give you.

Speaker 1:

You have to have Catherine Gordon, part two.

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah, i've got the other side, and so I'll tell you about this. Third time I went to jail. So John was, we were in New York City and John was speaking to all the educators, administrators and heads of the New York City public school system. So here he is giving this amazing talk, trying to empower these people for the new school year. We both go to LaGuardia and he's flying to Kansas to go speak and I was gonna go home And I am going, and so he was in another terminal. So I'm going through the security and all of a sudden my bag goes off And I'm like, oh my gosh, i remembered what it was. I forgot I have a place out here in Santa Monica, so I have a taser. I forgot to put my taser in my luggage to be checked. So this guy pulls it out and I won't tell you what I told him it was, but he's like what is this? And he takes the lid off and he hits the button And I don't know, if you know what a taser sounds like, but it's

Speaker 2:

like machine gun and everybody starts screaming. So he's like, oh, you're going to jail. So I grabbed my phone very quickly, called my husband. I said, honey, don't panic, don't worry, i just wanna let you know. I left my taser in my bag. It's all fine, homeland security is coming, but I'm gonna be fine, just I'll let you know.

Speaker 2:

It happens, thank gosh. Now listen, the old John Gordon would not have thought twice. His butt would have been on that plane and finding out at another time how I did. But for whatever reason, thank goodness he left his terminal. He literally called the company he was speaking for and said, hey, i got to get my wife out of jail. Yeah, yeah, this was like because they ended up going to jail. So anyway, homeland Security came, handcuffed me, take me under, throw me in a van and take me to jail. And it was the New York City Marathon And I was gonna have to stay in jail and be transported to Queens County jail to see this judge. And thank goodness John didn't get on the plane. He ended up hiring attorney and I got out. I mean, it was like eight or about 10 hours after that, but like, that's my big invest story for John.

Speaker 1:

I love it. There's gotta be a whole book in that, going to jail.

Speaker 2:

My other two stories on going to jail are that's jail light.

Speaker 1:

I gave you jail light. I love it girl, i got some good ones. Yeah, i absolutely love you, catherine. What's the best place for people to find you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you can find me at Catherine Gordon and my website, Catherineforrealcom. And if you do get my book Relationship Grit, go to relationshipgritbookcom and just enter in your purchase information And I have a very amazing action plan. Like I said, that should really be a paid course that you can use and it will transform your marriage, Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Well, I love that and I love you.

Speaker 2:

I love you.

Speaker 1:

I'm grateful for you and John a ton and super excited for Create Conference. We're two months away.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, i'm excited to be a part of it. Thank you.

Speaker 1:

Ken, we're gonna have a blast, excited for you to be there, and Irwin will be there, and Brendan Burchard and Jordan Peterson and a bunch of amazing, amazing people. We spend two and a half days talking about faith, health, relationship, business and finances Yep.

Speaker 2:

Let's do it together. I hope to see you there.

Speaker 1:

We're gonna have a great time. Hey guys, thank you for joining us on another episode of As The Leader Grows. Go check out Catherine Gordon on Instagram, guys Catherine Gordon relationshipgripbookcom. You can get that book there And, as always as this has blessed you, listen, hit the subscribe button. Share this screenshot on your Instagram. Catherine, i will give you a love over on IG as well. We appreciate you and we will see you next time on As The Leader Grows.