As The Leader Grows with Ken Joslin

Michael Molthan | My Story of Recovery and Redemption

• Ken Joslin

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When life seems to be at its lowest ebb, incredible transformation is often on the horizon. That's the essence of our heart-to-heart with Michael Molthan, better known as M2 the Rock, whose journey from the depths of substance abuse to the peaks of hope and service is nothing short of miraculous. Michael bears his soul, recounting the darkest times that saw him lose all, only to discover a faith that would illuminate his path to becoming a motivational speaker, life coach, and author. His narrative isn't just about the struggle; it's a profound testament to the human spirit's ability to recover and find purpose.

Imagine being mistakenly released from prison, embarking on a 100-mile walk back to turn yourself in, and encountering a judge whose compassion redefines your destiny. This episode isn't just storytelling; it's an exploration of divine intervention and remarkable courage. Michael's experiences, from an accidental release to a purposeful stride toward redemption, draw parallels to biblical tales of faith and grace. It's a stirring reminder that everyone has the potential for a second act in life, and sometimes, our most trying moments are mere precursors to our greatest achievements.

Our conversation also ventures into the transformative powers of faith and forgiveness. Through Michael's work with Dr. Robb Kelly and his profound I Am Second video, we uncover the strength found in forgiving those who've wronged us, and the freedom it offers from the chains of resentment. This episode isn't just an anecdote; it's an ongoing journey of growth, healing, and sharing the message that liberation comes from letting go of the past. Be prepared to be moved by Michael's honesty and inspired by the impact of faith in action, as we share resources and upcoming events that promise to deepen our connection with these life-altering concepts.

Welcome to the ATLG podcast I am your host Ken Joslin, former pastor turned coach & host of CREATE, the #1 Faith-based Entrepreneur conference in America. My mission is to help faith-based entrepreneurs become the best version of themselves by growing in our Core 5: Faith, Health, Relationships, Business & Finances. You can get more information as well as join our FREE Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/676347099851525

If you enjoyed the podcast, come join our FREE GSD Community of hundreds of entrepreneurs & a ton of FREE Content including CREATE Conference recordings with Ken, John Maxwell, Gary Brecka, Ed Mylett & more. growstackdrive.com/free

Speaker 1:

Hey guys, welcome to another episode of as the Leader Grows. I have got a ridiculous treat for you. I get the opportunity to travel, speak all across the country and I got to be with this guy, this next guest, for a weekend. We absolutely connected and I know he's going to add so much value to you guys. Listen. Welcome my good friend, m2 the Rock, michael Moulton, all the way from Dallas, texas, motivational speaker, life coach, author, and, as his T-shirt says, he's got his own. I Am Second video, michael. What's up, my friend? What's up, ken? Good to see you, man, it's good to see you. Dude, take a couple minutes and just kind of intro yourself to our audience. Tell us a little bit about where you're at, what you got going on, my friend.

Speaker 2:

Oh, man, first of all, I'm so honored to be on your show and thank the world of you. Really enjoyed our time together down in San Antonio and listening to you speak. And, man, you got a mouthpiece. I mean, you're a hard hitter, a bar spitter, and I really loved it. Man, just Google me.

Speaker 2:

I don't mean that cocky if you want to know who I am, but you know I am. You know, started my journey as a man in recovery from, you know, substance abuse disorder, and you know people say when they introduced me to speak, you know they say the real live, forrest Gump is about to come on stage. So apparently I have a crazy story and we're turning it into a book, as we're working on right now, 300 miles and a film. So you know we've got a lot of stuff going on, so it's a good story. But the great thing is it's a story of redemption. You know it was a story of.

Speaker 2:

You know I shot a little video this morning and you know I don't claim to be a religious robot, but you know I finally realized, you know, that after my 27th mugshot I realized that, you know, god was all I had. He was all I needed because he was all I had. I had, and you know, coming from a very you know high-end family, grew up in the upper class, you know, echelon and also being successful financially myself, you know.

Speaker 1:

God removed everything away from me to get my full-blown attention. I love it, dude man. For those of you guys that haven't heard his, I Am Second video. I'm going to drop a link to that. I Am Second video. It's about what?

Speaker 2:

Nine minutes 10 minutes long, michael is nine minutes and, um, yeah, that that has really opened a lot of doors. In fact, when they call super powerful, yeah, thank you so much. And it's a, it's a nice snapshot, um, of the story, um, and there's so much more, so much more coming.

Speaker 1:

So you um, you're the only guy in the history of the world that I've ever heard of that was accidentally released. That's right. Prison Talk, talk about that, I mean. I mean that story in of in and of itself is unbelievable. Talk about how you got in that position. Share it. Share with us some of the some of the mistakes and some of the things that you learned and how you found yourself in position to be accidentally released from prison.

Speaker 2:

Well, you know it goes back. You know I was married for 14 years and you know we had, we had two boys and I was very successful high end luxury home builder in Dallas, in the Park City's Highland Park University Park and you know, life was great cities, highland park, university park and um, you know, life was great. And then, you know, on january 4th 2009, my youngest son called me and said you know, mom's on the floor flopping like a fish and she had a massive brain hemorrhage. Um, and from that day forward, you know, my life has never, you know, has never been the same. And you know, through a very, very, uh, nasty divorce and families fighting against each other, I literally just gave up and gave them everything and I went to a real dark place.

Speaker 2:

And in 2010 or 11, I got my very first arrest and got pulled over and was intoxicated. And you know, as I said, I had a large amount of cocaine in my truck. And you know us. I said I had a large amount of cocaine in my truck and you know us addicts, we don't say we had a little, we always say large. And so I had a large amount of cocaine in my truck and I got arrested for the first time in my life and I arrived in a place that I said I would never go and it scared me. And you know, ken, that day, you know I wasn't a believer, you know I just I wasn't into that stuff and and I didn't. You know, one trauma I don't have is religious trauma. You know I didn't grow up, you know going to church and all that stuff and, and so you know, I said I'm never drinking alcohol or doing drugs again. And I really meant it. And you know I didn't know how to do, I didn't know how to bond out. It was this whole different world and it was really crazy, ken, because I'd see these guys get arrested and brought into booking and the guards were calling them by name. They were calling them by their prison names. Like, hey, man, you know what's up Juice You're back. And you know what's up Sketch You're back. And I'm like this is crazy. You know I said I'm never drinking it again. Well, when I got back to I was living in an apartment at the time because we were divorced and I said, you know, I just need to knock the edge off. And so I had one drink and I got drunk and high again that night.

Speaker 2:

26 mug shots later, I finally realized on May 29th 2017, I was apprehended by the Dallas Police Department and if they would have let me out the next day, I would have got right back in the noise.

Speaker 2:

You know I would have re-upped and, you know, did the deal, but I had no bond. And Judge Jennifer Bennett, who is I call her my professional photographer and you know she had had enough, and said and you know she had had enough and said you know, I'm going to have to send you away for a while. And when I was in there, I had this when they arrest you, they diagnose you. You know they put the misdemeanors together, they put the chomos together and then they have in Dallas, which was one of the most dangerous jails in the country, they have what's called the North Tower and the second floor on the North Tower. They call it the jungle and that's where all the murderers are and it's maximum security and that's where they put me and they made a mistake, but they didn't. But they made a mistake and they put me in there and I'm in a two-man tank and I was there for 18 months let me so, let me so, dude shawshank, redemption is one of my favorite movies.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, favorite movies. What was it like the first night you're in there and they shut the door and turn the light out.

Speaker 2:

Well, they don't turn the lights out. Um, that's one thing, but but the first night there, well which?

Speaker 1:

time. No. When you got put in that North Tower and you're there for the very first time and they shut the door and it's nighttime, it's time to go, what in the world was?

Speaker 2:

racing through your mind. It's over, it's over. I'm going to prison for a long time and I'd caught a charge for something that I didn't do that was later dropped, and I just gave up time. And and I'd caught a charge for something that I didn't do that was later dropped, and and I just, I, totally I just gave up. You know, and I'll never forget this, ken, there was, I'm laying there. I never had a visitor, never had.

Speaker 2:

You know, I have a very a strange relationship with my family and and I had a guest come in, it was my mom, and I walked in there and she says you know, I'm just coming to say goodbye to you because I don't know when we're ever going to see you again. And I just said guard. And I got up and left and as I did that, I walked back in and this guy was leaving and he just handed me a book and it was this boring book, and I threw it on my bunk and I was excited because my cellie, which is my cellmate, the bottom bunk was gone. So I got to move the bottom bunk and that's a big deal, right. And as I'm doing this, this old man's coming in. He was back on a bench warrant and they called him Uwe. He was 70 years old, doing life, so I had to give him the bottom bunk.

Speaker 2:

And the next day he asked me to read to him this book I had and I said, well, you can have it. He says what's it say? And I said Detours by Dr Tony Evans. He says, oh, I love me some, dr Tony Evans, that's a diesel. He says, will you read it to me? And I said, well, why? Which blew me away, being, you know, upper class educated and all this stuff. He says I can't read or write and that just baffled me so goofy. For the first 10 minutes. And as I'm reading this, it's the story of Joseph and I'm like going man, this is my story. And so he loved me reading to him and I would read to him, because we're locked up for 20 hours in a four by nine cell, just him and me.

Speaker 2:

And the next thing, I know, four days go by and I wasn't anxious, I wasn't nervous, I wasn't thinking about what was going on and I realized that I was serving someone else and I was in the safest place in the world because serving him put me in the now and that's where God's at. And so as a result of that I got you know I caught chain, which means they transfer you, transport you and I'm, but before that I'm reading this tank because the whole tank can't read or write and I have real unique handwriting. I think I sent it to you yesterday. I have unique handwriting and people loved it and they would ask me to write their names or write letters and so every night at chow dinnertime I would get up and I would read something out of the book detours and how it affected me. I wasn't preaching, I was saying I statements. I said, man, check this out. And they loved it and it provided hope in the tank.

Speaker 2:

And the tank came closer together and I'm the only white guy in there. They thought when I went in there I was proper. So they thought I was either gay or a cop. So I had to stick to myself and I became tank boss and the guards were just amazed. So they transported me to Central Texas and I walk in and they put me in another tank, just like north tower. It was rock and roll. I mean, ken, I'm seeing guys get killed in front of me and all this stuff and I'm sitting there and this guy comes up to me. He goes man, you got good handwriting, what are you reading? I said well, you can read it. He says I can't read or write.

Speaker 2:

And so I looked at god and I said I see you, boo, I see you, and so I did the same thing there, and where my awakening was, and my spiritual awakening was, is that I forgave everyone. And when I did that, god set the bond and he gave Christ the key and he literally put it in the lock. And on October 13th 2017, they came over to the speaker and they said Michael Moulton, bunk and junk, which means get your stuff, you're free. And the whole tank's going. What's going on?

Speaker 2:

And even the guards I mean I'm not supposed to what was going through your mind right then Didn't know I mean, I didn't know what was going on because I still had another two years to serve and so they literally had to physically push me out of prison. And that's for the first time when the gas of the world hit me. I just turned to God and I said what do you want me to do? And he said walk. So I made the journey 300 miles back to Judge Bennett's court and she had heard what I've been doing in this transformation and she said I'm not going to get in the way. She said I'm going to set you free and I said I'm already Hang on a second stop.

Speaker 1:

You had two years left on your thing, two years left on your sentence. How long have you been in at this time?

Speaker 2:

Oh, out of six years, I served four years, but I'd been in for about 14 months.

Speaker 1:

So a little over a year you get released. Like I said, the only person that I've ever heard of accidentally released from prison.

Speaker 2:

It was the first time. It was the first time in Texas.

Speaker 1:

And the first thing you did was go get back in front of that judge. You went to turn yourself in.

Speaker 2:

Why? Well, I walked to parole? Because I'd met my parole officer the day before and I walked straight into parole and I'm walking in, her name is Stacy and she was walking drinking coffee and she saw me come in. She goes like what are you doing here? And I said I don't know, y'all need to rearrest me. And they pulled up on the computer and you know they said man, it says you're set free. And they said that we can't do anything for you. But you know, they gave me some crackers and then everybody was gathered around. They didn't know what was going on.

Speaker 2:

And then the head guy of probation came in. He says you're not going to believe this, but I just looked on it. We got like $86 in a benevolence fund and we can get you a bus ticket, but you got to get to Temple, texas. So I had to walk, you know 75, about a hundred miles to get to Temple. And when I got there I got on the bus and I said well, I don't have any ID or anything. So they printed off one of my mug shots to pick up my ticket at Will Call and I made it to court. And when I walked into court, judge Bennett says I've heard what's happening, because people who got released came back to her and said this man had changed his life. And she says I don't want to get in the way of that and I'm going to set you free and wipe your slate clean. Just go pay it forward. And that's what I'm doing right now, seven years later.

Speaker 1:

Like you're just. I mean man. I can't even imagine the time, the quiet in the still. It's not like you've got an iPhone and some headphones, it's just you and God.

Speaker 2:

And I'm carrying my property, which is my Bible, and that was it, and some other stuff, and I'm walking just right down to Interstate 35. And you know, I cut through and um, walked through a church parking lot to get to the bus station. There's these guys sitting on the back of their truck and they saw me carrying my bag look like a bag and you know, they said how you doing? And they gave me $7. They gave me $7. And I went straight to McDonald's and got a Dr Pepper and a cheeseburger. Oh my God, that tasted so good.

Speaker 2:

So I get to the bus station, ken, and I'm laying on the bench because my bus is not until the next morning. So I fall asleep on the bench and the police come up and shine their lights on me. They said are you OK? What's going on? I said no, you need to arrest me. I mean there's a problem. They call on their deal and you know, call my number in and they said we can't arrest you. There's nothing on your record. I'm like this is crazy and so I made it.

Speaker 1:

When that happened, michael, did you not? Were you like, okay, god, what are you doing? I mean, we read about and we hear about God parting the red sea for Moses. We hear Joseph's story and he's got this grandiose story and then all of a sudden he literally keeps Israel from starving to death. And then there are his brothers who who literally sold him into slavery. We hear all these stories. Literally, god parted the red sea for you. He just said I'm going to do something that has never been done before in the history of the state of Texas. And it's not like Texas. You know, you heard Ron White. Some states have the death penalty. He says Texas got an express lane. Like they don't play, like they do not play. Texas don't play, they do not play.

Speaker 1:

And then here you are. God's just opening all these Dude what is going through your mind? Dude what?

Speaker 2:

is going through your mind. Well, I know it's all God because I'm this new believer, born again person and I know there's something happening and I'm literally following my feet. I know it's all God, you know, today. My goal today is not to influence others, is to help people see life today through God's perspective you know, not their own, and so today I see it more through God's perspective of why he allowed all this stuff to happen, right, um, but you know, I'm just following my feet, you know, and I just know it's God. I'm just filled with the spirit and, um, I just I didn't care what happened, I was just like going to the next deal.

Speaker 1:

So you had 75 miles to walk on an interstate in Texas. It's hot Like one foot in front of the other. I mean, were you just like with every step going, God, this is unbelievable. And then you get to the bus station and you go arrest me and they say you have no record. That's right. That's right. That's right.

Speaker 2:

What are you thinking at the time I'm just thinking something biblical is happening. I'm like this is crazy, but I believe it. I was believing what was happening and all I was trying to do was get back and get to Judge Bennett and get rebooked in. I was dreading booking Booking is horrible, you know. And just to go complete my time, and when I went and saw her, you know, I didn't say, hey, can we let this one slide and go? I mean, I came to turn myself in and she's the one that you know set me free, and but as far as what I was thinking, it wasn't what I was thinking, it was what I was feeling, and I was feeling the spirit and I was following it.

Speaker 1:

So she lets you go. Your record is wiped clean. You still have a lot of people in your past that you had hurt, oh yeah, and now not only the people that you've hurt in your past. But you've got this really. You're forgiven. You've got this new lease on life. You have this new relationship with Jesus. You've got all these things going on. Walk me through what those first few months looked like being free.

Speaker 2:

It was faith. I mean, it was all faith. You know, when I left the courthouse after, you know, she blessed my game, I went straight to the Salvation Army and you know, and slept on the floor and when it was time to eat I went into the cafeteria and you know, I'm bald. I was bald like you because they shave you down Right and I'm horribly sunburned. You know, it was the first time I'd seen the sun and you know, a long, long time.

Speaker 2:

And and so I get Salvation Army and I go to to eat, to the cafeteria. You know, people in the cafeteria are volunteers. You know, in Dallas, and there were four women in there serving food that I had built their house and they didn't even recognize me. And so I was there and I thought that I would call my dad and I had a. You know, I didn't have a good relationship with my mom and dad my whole life and I went and checked on him because he was very sick and this is really good. So you know, I get to him and he said hey, I keep getting a phone call from this guy, brian Glenn, who's this big radio talk show personality called Business in the Know, and they want to know where Michael Moulton went, this home builder.

Speaker 2:

So I'm in Salvation Army clothes, on my dad's driveway on his cell phone and I call and they do an interview with me. They wanted to know it's a business me, they wanted to know it's a business show. They want to know where this well-known home builder has gone. So I tell them this story, but I'm telling you so on October 13th 2017, I'm released the following Friday I'm doing this talk show interview with Brian Glenn on the deal, and I tell him the whole story and he says, golly, this makes perfect sense.

Speaker 2:

What year was this? And I said, brian, this was Friday. And so it got out and the local media got ahold of it and I was being on the news and then iHeartRadio called me in to do an interview and then I started doing drive home traffic on radio with I heart radio talking about doing a talk show on redemption and recovery and great stories. I did that for two years um, being homeless, you know, and so and that's how it all started and that's what we're still doing today. Well, I didn't. This is God's deal, ken. I didn't sit in prison going. This is what I'm going to do.

Speaker 1:

I love it. Hebrews 11 says faith is a substance of things hoped for, and I love your story, man, when I heard your story well, when we met, when I spoke at the conference you and your wife were attending and spoke at you had shared your I Am Second video and so we'd hung out a little bit. The next morning I go to the gym, the lift and I'm watching your video and I'm like I'm shouting like come on, jesus, I'm listening to your story Like this is unbelievable. I remember I texted you and I'm like, bro, I'm glad I'm the only dude in the gym, cause I am shouting like ridiculously loud in here at your story. But I just love the way that you just embraced the journey of faith because of the redemption and the forgiveness that you had found.

Speaker 2:

And that's correct and you know. Back to a little snapshot of the story, ken. You know I grew up with major trauma. You know I was sexually abused as long as I remember for my grandfather who was a cop. You know, behind closed doors a lot of physical abuse with me. But I was in a wealthy home and so it was very hard for me. I couldn't share anything because no one would believe it because outside the home it looks so good. So I had real trauma as a kid growing up.

Speaker 2:

So I had real trauma as a kid growing up and then I leaned on drugs and alcohol because when I drank and I did drugs it made me feel like everybody around me looked right and so I would do more and more and more. And then I started creating self-inflicted trauma on top of that and hurting people and doing those things, and so it was real trauma. And that's my mission today is to stop focusing on the addiction and to focus on the trauma, the pain and the suffering. And Dr Rob Kelly, who is a dear friend of both of ours, I'm working intensely with him on addressing the trauma because when we started writing the book I went back to these places again and it really started to affect me. But I wasn't resentful, I still forgave them, but I didn't know why it was affecting me and the things today that were triggering me. And I've learned so much through Dr Rob Kelly, who is just a beast.

Speaker 1:

He is. He is pretty amazing. I've done a amazing. I've done a lot of therapy with him as well. He was one of my first guys that ever told me because of the trauma I had as a boy. I can't tell you how many times he told me he goes. Ken, the trauma that happened in your life and where you're at today is not your fault. That's right. The trauma that you experienced and where you're at right now is not your fault, but now that you know it's your responsibility to do something with it. That's right. That's exactly right. So you're, you're doing all this stuff. Talk a little bit about for those of you guys that may not understand or even know what I am. Second is just a series of videos of pretty successful um, you know, highly known individuals who come to faith in Christ. Talk to me about this. I Am Second video. How did all that come about, man?

Speaker 2:

Well, it was a God deal. I mean, they reached out to us I don't even know this, but their world headquarters is in Plano, texas, right here in Dallas and so they reached out to us. Someone said, hey, you ought to talk to Michael Malthen, m2 the Rock, and they brought me in and we did the I Am Second film and I was just honored because I'm like, why are they calling me? Because I mean you, look at the names on it. I mean you've got all these celebrities Brian Head, welch I mean you've got all the duck dynasty guys and, and I mean everybody, kathy lee, gifford I mean they just released yesterday, uh, kathy ireland, and I mean it's all celebrities, right.

Speaker 2:

And I'm like, why are they calling me? And so we went in there and and and we did the film and um little did they know they just celebrated a anniversary they had I Am Second Day and they invited me to be back, you know, back on, and in the last two years the film they did on me is their most viewed film of all time. That's crazy.

Speaker 1:

I watched it, dude. I was blown away. You talk a lot about in the video you mentioned because I didn't know this until I watched the video you talked about just being molested by your grandfather and being in that environment. Talk to me about how you made peace with that, or forgave, or what was that healing process and that journey? What did that look like for you, michael?

Speaker 2:

That's a great question, big deal. I'm glad you asked that. You know, yeah, I had resentment and anger towards him and what he did and I didn't know why he would do something like that to me and it affected me tremendously. I mean, I couldn't, you know I couldn't do take showers and you know I couldn't be in an open environment, I couldn't do sleepovers with other guys, and all the way down to a men's bathroom I can't go to a wall urinal I had to go in and shut the door and I didn't realize these were all symptoms. I had so much shame and I had to realize to forgive them. I had to accept the role that I played in it and people go, wait a minute. You played a role in that. I sure did. And the role I played in it was I chose to hold on to the resentment. That's the role I played in it. And when I had my spiritual awakening while incarcerated, I truly forgave everybody around me who really did me wrong and I forgave them and I accepted the role I played in. It is where I was free and I'll give you a story for your viewers and listeners to hear this, and this is a true story.

Speaker 2:

I'm driving to a speaking event and you can probably relate to this. I'm kind of locked, I don't know what I'm going to talk about. I've been speaking a lot and I get in there and I go into the bathroom real quick before I'm going to speak and there's two wall urinals there's a guy using one and there's a guy in the stall with the door shut and I'm waiting for him to get out, like I always do because I can't stand next to another man and I go in there. So when I come out, they have this big white grease board and I turn it around and, being a builder, I can draw. And I said and I literally shared this experience that I'm still struggling with in the men's bathroom. So I draw the bathroom and I did that.

Speaker 2:

Afterwards, a man in the front row is crying and he hugs me and he says you just changed my life, because I struggle with the same thing, thank you. I go wow, that's cool. I'm driving home and it hit me. I go wow, god is using my grandfather in that situation to work through me to help others who are suffering from sexual abuse. This is really thousands of emails, thousands of emails Like what is it? And they're from people who are incarcerated. I'm like what's going on here? They had just released all the iPads to every jail and every prison to inmates that they can and it's censored that they can go on and listen to podcasts.

Speaker 2:

To podcast the man that was crying. His father is a bigwig at Securus Technologies, which is government communication for every jail, prison, white House, fbi communication, and he put my show on every single tablet in every prison across the country so they could hear him to the rock. So this show we're doing right now will be on every tablet in every prison as a result of forgiveness, as a result and seeing it through God's perspective. See, if I wasn't a believer, I wouldn't have seen it that way. I wouldn't have seen it that way. What he did was wrong. Okay, what he did was wrong, but what am I going to do? What am I getting out of it, ken, if I'm demonizing him all the time?

Speaker 1:

that doesn't work. I have five affirmations I write here every day at my planner that I created. And my second one is I am whole. I choose to use past pain to help others find healing.

Speaker 2:

There you go.

Speaker 1:

So the pain that I've had in the past has now has a purpose, because I've identified it and the trauma and the things I went through. I'm going to take this, I'm going to take this past pain that I've experienced and I'm going to use it to help others find healing. And that's exactly. It's exactly what you've done.

Speaker 1:

How does that talk to me about fulfillment. Talk to me about how you feel today. Like when I saw you and your fiance together, I'm like dude. You love life at such a level and have such a passion for life right now because of where you've been. Dude, what is it like to be you right now and just live life and be like dude? I can't wait to seize every single day.

Speaker 2:

Well, I'm human, you know, and the gas of the world hits me. Listen, I'm real spiritual and real powerful when I'm doing this right now, Okay, and the reason why is because I'm out of self and I feel like I'm helping others and it puts me in the safest place in the world, and that's right here, right now. Right now, I'm not thinking about the future or the past, okay. But when I get alone, dude, I have my challenges, just like everyone else. But I recognize it. I recognize it. And how do I snap out of it? I just get back into service, serve, serve, serve.

Speaker 2:

God's not interested in celebrities, he wants servants. And so that's what I do today, and it's taken a lot of faith. There's days I'm going man, I don't want to do this, I'll get back in the home building, go make a bunch of money, you know. But God makes it really bright and clear. He provides burning bush moments immediately he goes. Remember, I set you free. You're going to do it my way. I have a plan, I have a purpose for you, and this is what we're going to do, and it's starting. It's starting to uh, to pay off.

Speaker 1:

And you're like okay, jesus, I hear you, man, I hear you and I live in gratitude, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I live in gratitude and there's a lot of you know, every single day. Listen, I was telling Dr Kelly this yesterday. Um, you know, if I really get out there and get squirrely, I go to my phone and I go look at my mug shots. I literally do that. I will go look at my mug shots and I go okay, okay, I got you, I got you.

Speaker 1:

It's smart to be able to center yourself and just take yourself back to where you were and to look at how far God's brought you where you are today. What would you say to somebody today, Michael, that's holding or harboring unforgiveness and bitterness and resentment against someone, whether it be sexual abuse, whether it be physical abuse, mental and verbal abuse? What would you say to that person that's listening to this podcast today?

Speaker 2:

Well, you know, we hear the cliche things. Like you know, stop drinking the poison hoping they die. You know, pray every day for two straight weeks and it'll go away. No, none of that worked for me. Okay, yeah, I prayed. Please give them pancreatic cancer and help them die a slow death. You know what I mean? I mean, that's that's the kind of prayers that I would do, uh, but I said it earlier, is that true? Freedom is forgiveness and you know, once I accepted the role that I play in it, I played it. You know, even my mom and dad, and I look back at the people who really did hurt me. I look at back at the life that they had, the way they grew up. You know, and, and, and what they went through and what they endured, um, and. So that gives me a lot of freedom, um, you know, forgiveness is for me, it's not for them. Um, and and move forward.

Speaker 1:

So I love that man.

Speaker 2:

Um any resentment is the number one offender, ken. It's killing the human race. That's it. A hundred percent, I agree. That's it.

Speaker 1:

And I think it. I love what you said. You know, there's just, there's just there's. There's several times in in Scripture in the New Testament, where it talks about forgiveness. But Jesus said listen, you've been forgiven a much, so you have to forgive much. Like any time you put it back in the perspective of man. I put Jesus on the cross. It was me that drove those nails into him. He suffered and died because he loves me. Every year at my conference we have these giant floor stickers with my quotes all over the building. Well, the first two quotes- I saw those.

Speaker 1:

That's really cool. Yeah, the first two quotes when you come in. That, you see, is my quote. God's love for you isn't predicated on your performance. He loves you because he created you as a son or a daughter. And when you can look at it that way, you see, literally, instead of looking through the lens of religion, you get to look through the lens of the gospel, which means goodness. I mean, Jesus loved me so much that he gave his life for me. And when you understand that and that forgiveness comes alive in your heart. It doesn't make it super easy to be able to forgive other people, but you're like man, I have to because of what he's forgiven me of.

Speaker 2:

Right, that's a good point. When I say this, sometimes it stirs up some controversy, and I don't care. I'm not trying to be popular, I'm just trying to be biblical. And but you know, when it comes to religion I'm an agnostic, okay, but when it comes to the word of God and the gospel and the truth, I'm all in. I am all in If you get, if I have to have choices of what I got to do, I'm going to go to penitentiary, and so I stay focused on the truth of the penitentiary and so I stay focused on the truth.

Speaker 2:

And the way I carry myself today is you'll never hear me say okay, ken, I'm going to talk to you, I'm a Christian, I'm a Christian, okay, I'm going to talk to you. My red flags go off. It's like Michael Jordan sitting down on the show saying, hey, I played in the NBA. We're going to go like well, duh, we know why are you telling us that? I want to show the world who Christ is? Not? Tell them, I want to show them, and that's the way that it works for me.

Speaker 1:

I love it, dude. Best way for people to connect with you, my friend.

Speaker 2:

Just go to our website, the letter M, the number two, the rock R-O-C-K it's right behind me com, m2therockcom and go, follow us on all our social media platforms and if you have anything that you need, you can message us. And we have a nonprofit and I'll plug once again, in September 15th of this year, our book 300 Miles. Crescendo Lee Perez is writing it and I didn't know this, but it makes me the author, so I get to say I'm an author, I haven't done nothing.

Speaker 2:

I'm like I did what I'm doing, so 300 miles and then. And then there's, you know, opportunities to when we come speak. You can, you can book me to come speak, and all that.

Speaker 1:

Well, guys, this story is absolutely unbelievable. Dude, I love you like a brother.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I am I love you like a brother. I love you too, and hey, stay tuned, because you're coming on my show here in a couple weeks.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we're going to have a blast. Dude, I'm honored to be with you guys. M2 the Rock show on Instagram, get connected with this dude. This guy's story is unbelievable. And again, we will drop the I Am Second link inside of this description for you to be able to go check that video out, cause it is unbelievable.

Speaker 1:

And let me say this to you guys you're listening today and you're like can? I'm just not really sure where I fall when it falls, on which side of I fall on. When it comes to my faith, let me say number one it's completely okay. God is not. God is not too big for your questions. He's not. He's not too big for your anger. He's not too like listen for your questions. He's not too big for your anger. He's not too like listen.

Speaker 1:

Every single Jesus hung on the cross and looked at heaven, which is recorded in scripture in two different places. God, why have you forsaken me? God's not too big for you to go. God why I don't understand and I know Michael understands this and I understand this and listen God's love for you, regardless of who you are, is not predicated on your performance. It's not about jumping through a hoop or doing A, b, c or D. That's religion. If you could be made right with God by doing the right things, jesus would not have to have sacrificed his life and done what he did for you. So, michael dude, I love you bro.

Speaker 2:

My man. That was beautiful. I love you too, and thank you so much for this man. That was beautiful. I love you too, and thank you so much for this.

Speaker 1:

I appreciate it. Guys, thank you for joining us on another episode of as the Leader Grows and, as always, come check us out over on our private Facebook community, growstack Drive. Hit the like subscribe button. Go check out my guy, michael Moulton, and we'll see you next time on as the Leader Grows.