As The Leader Grows with Ken Joslin
As The Leader Grows with Ken Joslin
Keith Hale | I Survived My Suicide Attempt
What happens when life throws you an unexpected curveball, and you’re forced to redefine your path completely? Join us as we sit down with Keith Hale, a remarkable figure who transitioned from a football injury to becoming a bestselling author, life and health coach, and one of Orange County's leading real estate developers. Keith's raw and honest recounting of his journey through the highs and lows of the industry, especially during the tumultuous 2008 market crash, and his move to Newport Beach provides a heartfelt examination of authenticity in a pretentious business world. His candid discussion about his battle with depression and contemplation of suicide offers a powerful message of hope and resilience for anyone facing similar adversities.
In our conversation, we peel back the layers of Keith's transformative experiences, from a challenging childhood as a special education student to his relentless work ethic that led to both success and burnout. We delve into his frustration with traditional talk therapy, which motivated him to write "Embracing Vulnerability: 10 Steps to an Authentic Life," a book filled with actionable steps for personal growth. Keith shares the critical lessons learned from notable figures like Brian Smith, the founder of UGG, and emphasizes the importance of faith, giving credit, and addressing the critical issue of suicide among men. Tune in to discover how Keith's mission to help others through life coaching and his book can inspire you to turn your pain into passion and live a truly authentic life.
Welcome to the ATLG podcast I am your host Ken Joslin, former pastor turned coach & host of CREATE, the #1 Faith-based Entrepreneur conference in America. My mission is to help faith-based entrepreneurs become the best version of themselves by growing in our Core 5: Faith, Health, Relationships, Business & Finances. You can get more information as well as join our FREE Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/676347099851525
If you enjoyed the podcast, come join our FREE GSD Community of hundreds of entrepreneurs & a ton of FREE Content including CREATE Conference recordings with Ken, John Maxwell, Gary Brecka, Ed Mylett & more. growstackdrive.com/free
Welcome to another episode of as the Leader Grows. Listen, I want to jump right in this. I've got one of my super good friends. This is my brother from another mother in California. Bestselling author, life and health coach, keynote speaker. This guy is one of the top builders in Orange County over the past 15 to 20 years. One of the top developers, an unbelievable human being, an entrepreneur my guy, keith Hale. What's up, big boy?
Speaker 2:What's up my brother Ken, how are you baby?
Speaker 1:Dude, tell the audience You're in your Sprinter van chilling somewhere on the beach in California.
Speaker 2:I'm in the van. I just left Laguna Beach. Actually, I just went to the gym this morning, got me a workout lifetime, and then I went down to the beach to do some meditation. To read Kelly sends me he does the corresponding proverb for the corresponding day. So it was awesome. So today I got to read about some stuff. And what a blessing man. You guys are blessings to me, man, sending me knowledge. So, yeah, but yes, I'm in the van, I love the. And uh, what a blessing man. You guys are blessings to me, man, sending me knowledge. So, uh, yeah, but yes, I'm in the van, I love the van, man. And uh, you know, here we go, let's make that happen.
Speaker 1:Hey, talk a little bit about your, your history, your background. I mentioned some of the stuff about being a developer. Share a little bit of your resume from some of the stuff you've done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, I started off in Northern California, a little town called Danville. You know it was my hometown, just a gorgeous little place, just kind of a niche, if you will. You know everyone knew everyone. It was just a beautiful place. And when I got hurt playing football I became a lender and a friend's dad taught me the business and I went off. To the races man I was super successful. He kicked me out of the office within a couple of years. To the races man I was super successful. He kicked me out of the office within a couple of years.
Speaker 2:And I decided to start my own deal with a good friend of mine who was a top real estate agent at the time in the city and I was lending the private money he was doing the real estate side and we killed it. So much so that I retired at 28 years old for the first time and then started buying real estate and realizing wait, a second man, I'm pushing all this paper. And then started buying real estate and realizing wait, a second man, I'm pushing all this paper and it's easier just to flip a house, right, you know? And we were making not a lot at the time $25,000 to $50,000 per flip and then I started, you know, when the market crashed of 08, I had, you know, a ton of real estate and I lost a lot of it and, you know, lost, you know, most of my things.
Speaker 2:And then a friend of mine's like, hey, I'm here in Newport. I was already visiting Newport Beach a lot because in the mortgage business Irvine was considered like Wall Street South at the time, so all the headquarters were here. So I spent quite a bit of time here already. But I saw that if we could do things that had an ocean view, it would be more advantageous for profitability and people, especially coming out of the country. You know wanted that. So you know, I, I I lost track, ken, but no over 300 successful projects and, uh, and during COVID, probably a hundred and something you know. So I mean it's, it's real estate's been great to me, but it also has been my Achilles heel too.
Speaker 1:So yeah, talk about what you mean by that, with it being your Achilles heel.
Speaker 2:I mean that you know my book, you know we're talking about today, is Embracing Vulnerability. Well, you know, in the real estate, as you know, the mortgage business and the real estate business as a whole, it's all one. It's a very pretentious business, right, it's a look-at-me business, it's a look at me business. And you know, for me, climbing that ladder in the business and becoming, you know, really successful, especially here in Orange County, when there's not that many guys that look like me that are, you know, successful in the real estate development side, or even real estate in general, I hate to say it, but you know, here in Orange County at least, and you know so, you know, not living my true, authentic self while I was climbing myself to the top, not being, you know, not always saying what it was on my heart and not living in the godly way that I wanted to, you know it just kind of got to me in the fact that you know I wasn't being authentic, you know, and it drove me to the point where I didn't even want to live anymore.
Speaker 1:So what do you, what do you think, kept you from being authentic? What was the thing, keith, that kept you from really sharing your truth?
Speaker 2:I think you know, um, I think it's interesting. That's an interesting question because I think a lot of us don't even know we're not doing that. You know I was going to get there.
Speaker 1:That's exactly where I was going, but what was the aha moment? Did you have an aha moment where you were like holy cow, I'm not being me.
Speaker 2:The moment I wanted to not live anymore. The morning I woke up and tried to take my life. I realized that I attributed to that, looking back on it and spending a lot of time with myself over the last year and a half. I attribute that to, you know, just knowing like I want to be authentic in certain situations and not being able to be authentic in those situations because of financial gain or maybe not getting in the deal or not closing it or, you know, not having the peer group, that I was circled around. Look at me and go. You know what Keith is still doing pretty well, right?
Speaker 2:You know, I think you know and it goes back to like the introduction of my book. You know boys don't cry, right. And you know we learn this at a young age. And so I go all the way back to childhood, right, eight years old, fall down to the playground, scrape my knee and all of a sudden a big, older kid comes over, slaps me in the face and calls me a bunch of names, right, and tells me boys, don't cry, don't ever cry again. And then you hold all that in.
Speaker 2:So I think that, as men in general, we're used to holding so many things in Right, and you know, I think that is just. You know, it's just what we do. Suck it up. We all played sports, football, basketball, baseball, track. They say the exact same things. It doesn't matter. You know what I mean. You know, boy, you know. Hold it in. Suck it up All the things that we've heard our whole life. And as men, we just take it all on. We put all the pressure on ourselves, and over a long period of time. Most of us don't want to admit it, but we're all having some sort of mental problem.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm just the one talking about it. The reality of it is, dude, is life's hard, like life is not easy, and you know as a kid you know doing that on the playground is somebody making fun of you and hitting you and telling you boys, don't cry. You grow up and especially, going through all the coaches. I think about some of my coaches I had in high school and this was back in the 80s. It was way different than it is now. I mean now you, you can't even say something to a kid as a coach or something like that, and not get in trouble.
Speaker 1:But when was the? When was the the? What was the in that moment when you attempted to take your own life and after that, the holy cow like I got to this place because I wasn't being my authentic self. What were some of the first things you did to change your behavior and your actions after that, keith?
Speaker 2:Well, it was interesting because, as I was trying to take my life, as I'm sitting in the car, in the garage and I say this to be very explicit on purpose, because as part of my training as a QPR certified instructor, I speak about suicide and suicide prevention the number one way to speak about it is to be authentic about what actually happened, because it's a taboo, especially in America, but it's important to talk about and be very descriptive on how you talk about it.
Speaker 2:So an interesting thing about that is the first time in a long time I actually called upon the Lord in a way that I did authentically was when I was trying to take my life that day, and so, you know, the first thing I did afterwards is praise the Lord for keeping me alive. You know, I don't ask questions as to why I'm just like I'm here, I'm still here, so now I have to. So in my book and in the later chapters I talk about surrender. So the first thing I did was say, okay, I'm still here because the grace, your grace, you know, lord, and I'm going to surrender now my life to you in a way that I've never done before. And that means you know we talked about Proverbs right. Do not lean upon your own understanding, right.
Speaker 2:And I think that this whole time I go to church like most of us. I went to church on Sundays. I listened to everything they said. I read my Bible verses, but I was reading them from my perspective as to understanding the way I want to understand them in the way I want to apply them, not the way the Lord is asking me to do it. So the very first thing I did was surrender my life to the Lord.
Speaker 1:I love that. Walk me through like after that, how light, if you will, or how carefree did you feel, forgiven, did you feel after that moment, and what were those next few weeks like for you?
Speaker 2:You know, it was the first time that I was able to stand up to people that were picking on me, so to speak, right Investors, business partners that had deals with big real estate deals that caused a lot of confusion, a lot of headache, a lot of just mad stress, and I was able, for the first time, to say you know what, I will step away from this now. This is no longer my calling right, which I did not have the courage or the authenticity within myself to speak that way to them, and I think that was a huge wake-up call for me, because that in itself took so much weight off my back. I wasn't able to do it before. I was so worried about the outcome and I had to make this much money and I had to, you know, do another deal. But being able to go to them and say I'm done, I don't care anymore, I choose the Lord, and then I choose me Wow, was huge.
Speaker 1:I love that, so that happens. How long ago was that Keith?
Speaker 2:It will be two years in December, January. January 8th will be two years.
Speaker 1:And then. So, from that point forward, when was the idea or the concept about your book birthed in your heart?
Speaker 2:Well, I think you know, talking to a lot of people a lot of friends of mine that had a lot of resources I was seeing like these high-powered counselors and stuff, and I realized in those appointments like it was good to like talk to someone, but there was no action. There was no action. I'm like where's the action? And then you know, as an ex athlete, I want to know if I run through that hole, make it, make a dash left and cut up Like you told me to I'm going to score a touchdown Right, cut up like you told me to I'm going to score a touchdown right. And in counseling it was just like, okay, we're going to keep practicing and we're never going to play a game and we're never going to score touchdowns, and that for me didn't work. And so I started realizing I wonder how many other people out there are going to counselors and no offense to any counselors that are watching this, it's no offense.
Speaker 1:It's just what you've been taught. We would call that talk therapy. Talk therapy, yeah, and I've done talk therapy a lot and I've done, I've done somatic therapy, I've done some other types of therapy, that literally the NLP. The results are yeah, I mean, after an hour you're, you're a different human being. It just it really does some deep subconscious, deep work at a subconscious level.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're able to feel things that you haven't felt before, but for me it was. It was, you know, I wanted an outcome. So then I started writing down my thoughts, right? I started writing down how I was feeling, I started writing down the word surrender and I started thinking to myself. Like you know, I'm a landmark graduate, 20 years. I'm a psi graduate, I'm a hoffman graduate. So I have the information in my mind and this wasn't applying it the way, like you know, wasn't applying it in the, in the realm of my life. I was telling I could fix everyone else's problems in two seconds Right, but I couldn't fix my own. And so that's the first time when I started sitting down and writing words like surrender.
Speaker 2:What does that actually mean to me, right? What does it actually mean? Right? So I'm saying it, but am I living it? Right?
Speaker 2:And then talking about you know, being, you know, vulnerable and authentic and living for the now, which is so important to me, because I've heard so many people say this, but we don't do it, right, you know. And then you know, listen to you know, tony Robbins, and listen to this. You know a lot of the other people that I sometimes listen to and just realizing, like you know what, if I have today, am I living today the way that, if it was my last day on earth, am I living today the way I'd want this to end? And then all of it changed in that moment, and every morning I'm like you know what, today I'm going to live.
Speaker 2:If it's my last day on earth, I'm going to tell the folks I love, I love them. I'm going to do the things that may impact, and I realized that I was making a lot of money, but I had no impact on society or on anyone that cared about me, and that's what hit me the hardest. I almost took my life. My children, who are superstars, would have been without a father, right, and yet they would have never really known what I really stood for, except building a bunch of houses. That, yeah, I mean it's cool, it's a cool thing to do, right, flipping houses, you know it's cool, but it but it's not my legacy, it's not actually who I am. So that's what I did.
Speaker 1:That was the word I was about to use was legacy, yeah, so. So in that process you said I'm going to write a book and teach people and help people walk through a difficult season Like I, like you did come out of a suicide attempt on the other side, alive, whole, healthy, forgiven, new relationship with Christ. Like you're doing things you've never done before, but with some action steps. And what I always tell people is can you put handlebars on that for me? Put cookies on the bottom shelf. Tell me what I need to do, and if you'll tell me and show me, I will do what I need to do. So tell me about the book, dude. Tell me, walk me through a little bit of the book.
Speaker 1:So here's the book again, that's a good looking dude on that cover right there bro.
Speaker 2:Thanks, man yeah.
Speaker 2:That was one of my better days right there. So, embracing Vulnerability 10 Steps to Authentic Life. You know, it's basically essentially what I was having to do. So the way the book came about was by me writing down different things, and as I'm writing them down, like you know what, I think other people would benefit from this. So, as I'm making my own notes that are helping myself, I guess the first journey was to put the oxygen mask on myself, right, and so to help myself. And as I'm helping myself, I realized, you know what it's all about the action, right, and it's funny because when I went to go hang out with Greg a couple of weeks weeks ago and I was listening to Brian Smith, the founder of UGG, and he said something that hit me, and this already hit me, but he put it into words. He said you know, one of the saddest days of his life is when he sold the company, right, and it was so unfulfilling. And I'm like thinking to myself like dude, you sold a company for you know millions of dollars, but it hit me and, like you said it was, the enjoyment was about the journey, it wasn't about the outcome, you know. So. So for me it was like looking at you know where, where am I in the journey? And the journey is never going to stop because the journey is to heal myself, which I would say that I'm still not out of the woods yet. You know what I mean. I still have to live these things by being authentic, by being vulnerable, by living for today, by surrendering right by by, you know, writing down feelings and knees right. Marshall rosenberg I study his stuff like in in, implicitly, because, because, like, when you know, when people call, like you ask the question how's your heart?
Speaker 2:Right? You know, and that's an interesting question, because most people say how, how are you doing? And and we all say I'm doing okay, um, I'm tired, you know, but we don't say what's on our mind. And when we do, do you see the reaction in people's face? You know, if you were asking me how I'm doing today, I said I'm suicidal. Most people turn around and run away from me. You know, yeah. And so I realized, like you know, looking at your feelings, your internal feelings and how you actually feel, right. So today I woke up, I wasn't feeling the best, right, I went to the gym. I'm a little down, right, you know, being authentic, I'm not a hundred percent. I'm a little heavy in my heart about certain things that are happening in life, right, and so then you're able to understand how you're actually feeling. Most people walk around life like everything's okay, because they have to show the world that everything's okay. But it's not okay, right?
Speaker 1:They want to suppress those things. I think a lot of times. They want to suppress those things, Keith, because they don't know how to deal with them Exactly. Because they haven't had something like your book to be able to go, or a therapist or a friend they can talk to. That can help them kind of flesh out what an action plan looks like.
Speaker 2:Right, you know and understanding your feelings. And then, what are your needs? Right, you know what I mean and your needs are something that most people will still look out there for what they need in here, right? So first, it's for me, you know, it's being a Christian it's God first, right? So my first need is to pray to God and see how this day can unfold. And the second thing is how can I meet my needs on my own? And that's the key. That was the game changer.
Speaker 2:And my cousin, who's a counselor and he does similar what we do. He hit this home in my head when I was at my worst. He flew across the country to come be with me and showed up. You know, didn't talk about it, but came from new york and showed up on my doorstep and said we're gonna do these exercises until you feel better. And I was like this ain't gonna work, dude. And all of a sudden, man, within a few days, I was like dude, yeah, who am I? Am I by just understanding how I'm actually feeling? And then what I actually need and how I can give that to myself, right?
Speaker 2:So I talk a lot about that in the book forgiveness, right, most of us walk around with something that we did in the past right, or something that someone did to us. We hold on to these grudges right. Like the Bible says, you have to forgive so you can then be forgiven right by the Father. And the thing is is that we don't do this right. Most of us either forgive someone else because we've moved on from that situation whether it be a loved one, a relationship or what have you but we don't forgive ourselves, and that's. We carry a lot of guilt around, and I realized for me, another thing that was attributed to my depression was all the guilt I was carrying around by things that didn't work in my life that I was holding on to holding myself responsible for.
Speaker 1:What was the key for you? To understand forgiveness, Keith, to be able to forgive yourself.
Speaker 2:I mean really reading the Bible and understanding how Jesus lived while he was on earth, what's commanded on us and why. And again, that surrender piece means that I have to forgive, and that includes myself. Because the thing is, what does it say? Faith without works is dead. So faith without works is dead, right. So faith without works is dead. So I cannot do the works right if I'm still holding on to things that are making me feel guilty because that's holding me from the work. You know, and so I think just understanding you know more about what the Bible actually says, and dissecting it and writing it down, and you know, listening to the Word and then understanding that. You know holding on onto this stuff is only hurting me. It's not holding hurting anybody else. I think I was mad at my exes. I was mad, you know. I was mad at all these things, but it's so easy.
Speaker 2:It's so easy and you know, being able to forgive them is forgiving myself, right, because you know we've all moved on. However, it's just that you know there's all these things that happen to us in life. You know we've all moved on, however, it's just that you know there's all these things that happen to us in life, you know. And then, going back I mean, I wrote about this in my book going back to eight, eight, eight years old, nine years old, when my teacher you know, I was a special ed student, right, I couldn't put blocks together like other students could, so they thought something was wrong with me. And it was an interesting thing because I was actually a popular kid at school, but I rode the short bus you know everyone made fun of and I had kids that had cerebral palsy and all these different things, and it was sad, right, it was a sad thing, but it was very humbling, you know, and it put me in a very vulnerable place, which was scary. It was so scary but listening to a teacher that told me and this is like you know, they'll have jobs for people like you, you know, and you know I held on to that as anger, I held on to that which you know.
Speaker 2:Part of that made me successful because I was like you know what? I would hear that teacher tell me that. And then, when I heard that teacher tell me that, I'd worked four more hours, right. So you know, as the mortgage business used to be, we're all workaholics and then we go out drinking afterwards and we do this all, we do this all all week and then on weekends we all get together and do some more of it, right. So it was. It was very unhealthy, but I became a workaholic, which also attributes to my depression. But I only did that because I didn't graduate from college. I got hurt in the football field. I didn't feel good enough, I couldn't cry and be vulnerable. So instead I'll show the world how great I am by making myself super successful. But that took, you know, working sometimes 15 hours.
Speaker 1:I heard my pastor here in Atlanta, mayo Seoul. I heard Mayo a couple weeks ago talk about when you because we hear this a lot, especially in the entrepreneurial world Prove it to them, show it to them. If they don't believe in you, you use that as fuel. And I heard him say he goes. Anytime you prove, it always leads to pride. Anytime you prove, it always leads to pride. Anytime you prove, it always leads to pride. Because what happens is you're like oh, keith don't believe me, I'm going to show him. Oh, my teachers didn't believe in me, I'm going to show them. And then you do it. Once you're successful, you start taking the credit, instead of as a faith-based entrepreneur, going man God, you're just, you're so good that you allowed me to do it and it's your strength that gave me the ability to be able to do that.
Speaker 1:We'll do talk. We got a. We got a couple of minutes left. Uh, quick shout out on your book. Where can they find it? How can they get in touch with you, my friend?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's on Amazon right now under embracing vulnerability 10 steps Authentic Life. Please go get it. If you do, please leave a review, that'd be. You know, it'd be great to see how you enjoyed the book or what I could have done differently, because I'm going to hopefully do another book At Keith Hale on Instagram. I'm studying I'm almost finished with my certifications to do some different things in life.
Speaker 2:I'm already a health and life coach, but I'm furthering that message along, and so you know my goal, ken, is just. You know, I would say I lived the first half of my life selfishly for me, right. It got me nowhere. I'm living the second half of my life for you, right. So my goal in the book is to help other people.
Speaker 2:My goal in being a life coach is to help people realize there is another way that men can be authentic women. You can better understand us. I want to help everybody. And then being, you know, healthy. You know we have to have a healthy body. You know a healthy mind creates, you know, a healthy body and vice versa. And so you know giving back to the populace of people that don't have a way or aren't humble enough yet to say I need help, and my goal is to just help everybody. You know suicide in this country is out of control. Our youth, right, they're looking towards us to help them. You know before they, you know the song children are our future. You know not anymore. You know we are their future because we have to now guide them and show them, because the world is lost. The devil is at work and his plan is playing out before us all. So we have to help this.
Speaker 1:You and I have looked at the suicide rates. I believe it was over six. 70% of all suicides, 65 or 70 were men.
Speaker 2:Were men yeah.
Speaker 1:Was was men, because of the, because of the weight we carry. We've got a lot of faith-based entrepreneurs, especially men, that listen to this podcast. Some of the some of the guys that are listening to this podcast right now have been contemplating suicide, have been contemplating the world be better, have been contemplating my family would be better if I wouldn't hear. What do you, what do you say to them, Keith?
Speaker 2:I would say, you know one, I love you, you are loved, my brothers, my sisters. And there is a different way you can reach. I can call me directly, I'll talk to you any time of the day, but what I would say to that is I've been there and you know the world isn't better without you in it. It's just you have to invoke the change because your pain can be turned into passion, like I did for me, right, it still hurts, and my quote is just because I'm hurting doesn't mean I'm weak. You're just human, you're a human being that's hurting. So you know, and I just lived it A dear friend family, a dear friend of mine, committed suicide not long ago and you know, and watching the aftermath on the children, you know, being firsthand and watching the family go through this and the children go through this.
Speaker 2:And I will say that it's not the, it's never the answer. And the other thing I will say, which I did not know, this and most don't. But do you know, suicide attempts and thoughts are 100% curable, unlike anything else. Right, nothing else is 100% curable, but this is 100% if you get the right help when you need it. You know, and we all need to humble ourselves and say you know what we need help, I need help, you need help and we're here. Ken, you're here, you know. You're here to pray over people and the biggest thing I would say is someone is listening to this and knows someone who's feeling this way. Don't make their feelings wrong. Just be there for them, listen to them and then give someone like myself a call and we'll reach out and we'll get it figured out together.
Speaker 1:I love that Dude. I love you, man.
Speaker 2:I love you too brother.
Speaker 1:I love you too, man. Thank you, I'm proud of you at Keith Hale guys on Instagram. We'll tag that. We'll put a link in the show notes for the book at Amazon. Embracing vulnerability 10 steps to kick in life in the ass Is that what the name of it is?
Speaker 2:Hey man we all need it. We all need a quick kick man.
Speaker 1:Come on, baby, I call you and I need a kick man, yeah you do, yeah you do, uh, embracing vulnerability. Guys hit amazon, grab a copy um. I got a copy of the day they went on sale um at keith hale. Guys check him out. He's doing some amazing things. God's used him in a big time way. Keith, I love you.
Speaker 2:Buddy, thanks for joining us today love you too, brother, have a nice day thanks for joining us on another episode of as the Leader Grows.
Speaker 1:As always, do me a favor. The number one way you can support our show and thank you for doing that is by and. We hit the top 2% of all podcasts last month in the United States. Take a screenshot. Share this. Share this episode with three to five people that you know that need to hear about this subject, whether it be suicide, whether it be entrepreneurship and the depression anxiety that can come along with it. Share this episode for us. I love you. We'll see you next week on as the Leader Grows.