As The Leader Grows with Ken Joslin

Coaching with Ken | Recognizing When Fear Takes the Driver's Seat

• Ken Joslin

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Moving from fear to courage isn't just about eliminating anxiety – it's about recognizing how subtle whispers of inadequacy quietly steer our business decisions from the backseat. This powerful episode exposes fear's hidden influence in five critical business areas where we're often unaware it's operating.

Ken Jocelyn shares insights from recent gatherings of 55+ faith-based entrepreneurs where fear emerged as the overwhelming obstacle preventing them from fulfilling their God-given potential. Rather than manifesting as obvious terror, fear operates as a quiet saboteur whispering "you're not enough" or "who do you think you are?" while subtly directing our path.

Through practical examples, Ken reveals how fear disguises itself in marketing ("I don't want to be too pushy"), leadership ("I'm giving them grace"), pricing ("I want to be accessible"), growth ("I'm waiting for the right timing"), and messaging ("I don't want to offend anyone"). These seemingly reasonable statements often mask deeper fears of rejection, confrontation, being seen as greedy, failure, or disapproval.

The episode introduces a powerful "fear replacement framework" that faith-based entrepreneurs can immediately apply: identify the story fear is telling, interrupt the pattern by inviting God into the midst of your anxiety, and replace fear with faithful action based on truth rather than anxiety. As Ken reminds us, "The enemy doesn't stop your momentum with chaos; he does it with compromise."

The most liberating question posed might be this: Who's really responsible for outcomes in your business – you or God? When we truly grasp that God supplies all our needs (not our discounts or compromises), we can make decisions from alignment rather than anxiety, allowing courage to take the driver's seat while fear remains firmly in the back.

Take this journey from fear to fearless momentum by joining our community of faith-based entrepreneurs at growstackdrive.com/free, where you'll find resources to help you lead with courage rather than compromise.

Welcome to the ATLG podcast I am your host Ken Joslin, former pastor turned coach & host of CREATE, the #1 Faith-based Entrepreneur conference in America. My mission is to help faith-based entrepreneurs become the best version of themselves by growing in our Core 5: Faith, Health, Relationships, Business & Finances. You can get more information as well as join our FREE Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/676347099851525

Speaker 1:

Hey guys, welcome to another episode of as the Leader Grows. I am your host, ken Jocelyn. I'm super excited to continue this series on fear to courage and this is all based off if you listened to last week's podcast it's all based off of our proximity series event that we hold. We do those the third Friday of every month down at the Lib Church headquarters in Brookhaven 55 to 60 faith-based entrepreneurs. We're having our third one actually on Good Friday. So we're growing. It's just an amazing opportunity to be able to get a room of faith-based entrepreneurs together for four hours on a Friday to really tackle and grow as leaders, especially in our core five framework faith, health, relationship, business and finances. Well, the last proximity we did back in March, as we had each speaker goes 20 to 25 minutes and then we have about two table questions and we give each of the tables about 15 minutes to kind of process through what their conversations or what the talk and how the conversations they're having at the table. We want them to walk away with at least one to two action points, places, areas that they can take action on what the speaker just spoke about. And so the number one thing that we got all the feedback. Every single table again, 55 people. There's six to eight of the tables. We've got tons of tables of people in this room to kind of get the picture of those of you guys that are listening to this podcast, and so at every table we went to we had one kind of a table captain kind of stand up and go. Yeah, the consensus in our table was.

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In every different talk that we did last month, the number one thing we heard overwhelmingly was fear and how, as faith-based entrepreneurs, fear tries to get in the way of us achieving and accomplishing everything that God has called us to accomplish. Last week, on the last week's episode, I talked about how fear was a silent saboteur. Fear whispers. It doesn't scream, it doesn't shout. It just literally says you're not good enough. Who do you think you are? Why do you think you can accomplish this dream that God's put on the inside of you? This week, I want to talk about fear in the driver's seat. I want to talk about identifying hidden influence.

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I'm going to take a little bit of this title. It came from my good friend and my pastor, mayo Soel, at Live, because last month at our proximity series, his whole talk was who's riding in your car and one of those was fear. That's really where this entire thought process and so all month inside of GrowStack Drive and our podcast, in our community circle and corner calls we do calls every Monday morning, every Wednesday evening for our circle members and then the first and third Wednesday of every month we do a call for our community members. So we're not only just taking this fear to courage theme on a podcast, but we're talking about it with about 25 to 35 faith-based entrepreneurs at least two times a week and sometimes three times a week. And this month's proximity series, which this drops after proximity, is also faith over fear. And then our mastermind that's coming up in Puerto Rico. We have about 35 people that are going to be in our mastermind in attendance there in Puerto Rico.

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The entire theme of that one is momentum, fearless momentum. How do I create fearless momentum? Talk a ton about courage, but the first thing I thought about and I said this last week on the podcast the first thing I thought about at proximity when I kept hearing fear over and over and over and over, was Joshua, and we'll find in Joshua chapter one and in Joshua chapter two, I believe there are three times where God says be strong and courageous. Be strong and courageous. And I remember I was sitting at dinner with a friend in Tampa a couple weeks ago and he said this word he goes Ken, you can't have courage without having first had fear. And so, and I would say this again, we're not given, we don't have, the spirit of fear, but of power and of might and of sound mind. Is what is what? First Timothy, chapter seven, or first Timothy, chapter one, verse seven, says we're not given the spirit of fear, but of power and of sound mind, like that's who we are as Christ followers and believers. But the reality of it is is, when you and I try to accomplish anything that's massive, anything that, like the vision is, is huge, anytime we try to accomplish anything great for the kingdom of God, anytime the vision is big, the enemy will always come after you and he usually uses fear.

Speaker 1:

Last week we talked about how fear whispers. You're not enough, you're not good enough, you're not talented enough, you don't have the resources. You've never been at this level. Look at this guy or this girl. Who do you think you are? The family you came from? It's just the whispers and lies of the enemy.

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And here's the core idea today that fear rarely grabs the steering wheel. It does the same thing. It's in the back seat trying to quietly give you and I direction. Fear is saying don't turn right here, you just need to keep going straight. God, the Holy Spirit, is just speaking to you on what you need to do and how you need to grow and become the best version of yourself and how you can grow your business and your finances. And fear tries to give us directions from the backseat. Hey, take a left right here. Nope, you don't want to take. It's just quietly trying to give us directions. This podcast, guys, our hope is that we want to help you identify where fear is quietly driving the outcomes in your business, in your relationships and in your personal leadership. Fear doesn't always stop you. Sometimes it shapes you. Fear doesn't always have to stop us. Sometimes God can use it to shape us. So I love this.

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Psalms 139. I want to start with this scripture. Psalms 139, 23 and 24 says search me, god, and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts. Now listen. For those of you guys that don't understand anxiety or any kind of depression or any of those kinds of things, listen forever. I never understood, like how can you be a believer and have anxiety? Or how can you be a believer and struggle with depression? Like I never understood it until it happened to me. And then I was like whoa, hang on just a minute, cause I am one of the most positive, upbeat people that I know and I get that everywhere that I go. But here's David writing this God, know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts. See if there is any offensive way in me and lead me into the way everlasting. See if there is any offensive way in me and lead me into the way everlasting. I love this truth in Psalms 139, verse 23 and 24.

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David doesn't try to hide his fear from God. As a matter of fact, he invites God to be a part of God. Expose, show me where I'm anxious. Show me where I'm fearful. It's the same thing I've been praying God show me Because I've learned this walking through as much trauma therapy as I have. I've learned to understand that just because I feel a certain way doesn't give truth to. That's how I should view the situation, because a lot of times our feelings or our triggers, those things can happen in us because of past experiences. So what do I do when I face a moment like that? Guys, what do we do? How do we handle that as faith-based entrepreneurs? Super simple God search my heart, god test me, god know any anxious way in me. Instead of trying to hide the fear from God or the anxiousness from God, we should be inviting God right in the middle of our anxiousness or our fear.

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I want to talk about fear's hidden influence. I want to hit three or four different areas inside of our business, and this is how we can recognize whether or not fear is trying to creep into the driver's seat. Number one is marketing. We say I don't want to be too pushy, I don't want to send too many emails, I don't want to do this, I don't want to do that, when in all reality, that's rooted in fear. Now listen, I'm not opposed. I'm not saying you got to go blast people on your email list. We don't do that. We add value and we add value and we add value and we add value and we add value and we add value and then we add value. And then we make an ask or present an opportunity for people to be able to get connected with us. But a lot of times people say, oh no, that's too pushy. You can't email people more than twice a week or once a week. If you're adding value to people, you can add value to people. You're trying to sell somebody something totally different. But we use the excuse of I don't want to sound pushy when in reality we have a fear of being rejected. What if they don't like me? What if they hit the unsubscribe button? What if they don't want to be a part of this, of this dream, this vision, this business that God has given me?

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The second thing is leadership. This is how we know fear is hiding in our leadership. I'm giving them grace. Listen, I love grace, I need grace, I practice grace because I need it. And you know people will say all the time they'll say something about somebody. That's a listen, I don't. I've got enough to worry about between me and Jesus. I don't have enough time to worry about me and this person and where they're at with Jesus. I'm not their Holy spirit. They can go figure that out with God, they ain't my job.

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But the reality of it is, when we say we're giving people grace, a lot of times it's to mask that we're afraid of confrontation, we're afraid of being disliked. Guys, as Paul said, I am chief center, like I am the chief center when it comes to that and I love people. I hate confrontation. What I've learned is in 56156, so what I learned, probably, I guess in I don't know 30, 40 years of being a leader. Is this? So what I learned? Probably, I guess in I don't know 30, 40 years of being a leader? Is this? The moments that I avoid having difficult conversations, those conversations always fester and they become harder conversations afterwards instead of just handling the situation when I needed to handle it.

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So marketing leadership, pricing I want to be accessible when the reality of it is, guys, is we're afraid to be seen as being greedy. The one thing listen, say what you want about Grant Cardone but the one thing he said that I latched on to five plus years ago is all pricing is made up Like it's made up, and if you're giving value to the price, whether it be a widget, whether it be coaching, whether it be some kind of a service, whatever it is you're giving doesn't matter. You can charge whatever you want as long as the value is there. Because if the value is there and you're solving problems for your customers and your clients, people are going to transact with you. They're going to want to, and if you handle yourself in a relational way, they're going to want to do business with you even more.

Speaker 1:

But a lot of times when fear is running our pricing, we were like I just want to be accessible. When we're really afraid to charge what we're worth. I see this. Pastors, if you'll listen to me, for those of you guys that are pastors, when you get into, let's say you don't pastor all the time. All the pastor friends that I have who have gotten out of full-time vocational ministry and they've went into business, they find it hard to be able to charge people what they should be charging people because they still have that ministry heart and that ministry mindset, which is okay. You just have to grow through that. The fourth area we struggle with when it comes to fear is growth. We always say I'm waiting on the right timing. How many of you guys have ever said I'm waiting on the right timing when the reality of it is sometimes it's just fear of success?

Speaker 1:

I remember in October of 2021, we had just finished our largest boot camp that we had ever done. It was, I think, 40, 50 people, 5k ahead. We did it in Vegas at my friend Brad Lee's place, my good friend, gary Brecker. That was Gary's first public speaking event. Gary came in and stayed with us for three days and spoke this before Gary. He didn't really even knew who Gary was and Gary comes in and speaks and we finished that. It was a great weekend. I think it was October 1st and 2nd of 2021. We finished that.

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I come home and I'm like I want to do Create Conference. I want to build the largest movement of faith-based entrepreneurs and the number one faith-based entrepreneur conference in the country. I want to do that now and I'll never forget I got on the phone with Chad Johnson, who is John Maxwell's right-hand guy, and I said, hey, I want to have John come in. We're going to do this at the end of January, so you're looking at November, december, january. I had 90 days to pull this entire conference off and I've done a lot of conferences. 90 days is a little bit of a stretch and I'll never forget Chad telling me. I said hey, I want John to come in and speak on Thursday night at this fundraising dinner for my good friend Hugh Jackson, former NFL head coach two different times, and my good friend, david Pollock, who used to be a host on College Game Day, and so we're going to do a fundraising thing. I'd love for John to come speak at the dinner and have dinner with us and then come in Monday and he can open the conference up.

Speaker 1:

And Chad's like great. And he gave me a number and it was high. It was just south of six figures. Actually, I think the first number was over six figures. And he goes, ken, since we've known you for 20 plus years, I think. Basically they gave me the brother-in-law discount and so I'll never forget. I called my friend. I said hey, dude. Chad said to tell you hi. And his first words out of my mouth were how much? He said how much. I said $85,000. And he goes what are you going to do? I said I've already signed the contract and sent it back. He said how are you going to pay for it? I said I have no idea, but we're going to figure it out. And we did figure it out. But a lot of times, guys, we wait on timing. And it's not waiting on timing, it's.

Speaker 1:

We have a fear of failure or a fear of success. The last one is our messaging. We're so afraid to offend anyone and it's not really fear of offending someone, we're just. We fear disapproval or backlash. What if I say something, especially as a faith-based entrepreneur? Listen, you can say whatever you want to say out of scripture and it be, and you can do it with the right spirit and the right love and the right heart and the right temperament on video, the right countenance and the right demeanor. Somebody's probably still going to take that the wrong way. It doesn't matter.

Speaker 1:

I literally was thumbing through just a while ago and my friends will get on to me if they hear this. I was thumbing through. I saw my ad popped up for proximity. Hey, are you a faith-based entrepreneur in the Atlanta area? My name is Ken and I just go on and on. You know, and I just go on and on. There's 120 comments on there hammering me Heretic, I'm going after people's. I mean literally I get hammered.

Speaker 1:

I don't want to offend anyone is what we say and really we're just afraid of disapproval. And it's funny, my friend today she goes why do you read those? And sometimes I do it and I can do it at fun, but what some of the stuff it's like, especially with religious people. Literally I'm like you don't know me, you don't know my heart. You don't know that we've given a hundred thousand dollars. We've helped give, we've helped give over a hundred thousand dollars to OB children's hospital in Kenya, like there are. Give back. Like you don't know what we do or my heart. But anyway, I'm just again. I'm sharing with you guys things I struggle with, because I know, if I struggle with them, everybody struggles with these things.

Speaker 1:

Listen to this truth. The enemy doesn't stop your momentum with chaos. The enemy doesn't stop your momentum with chaos, he does it with compromise. He doesn't stop your momentum with chaos, he does it with compromise. He doesn't stop your momentum with chaos. He does it with compromise. Because what happens?

Speaker 1:

Fear is trying to get in the driver's seat. It's in the backseat, going hey, let me drive for a little bit. Hey, let me take this. It'd be easier if you just slid on over in the passenger seat. Why don't you come back here in the second row and take a nap? Why don't you go back? If you're in a van? Why don't you come to the back of the van, lay down and get you a nap? Let me drive for just a little bit.

Speaker 1:

And what happens is because we're afraid. And listen, being afraid is not sin. Thinking and sitting in that fear and letting that fear dominate and dictate your decisions. That, my friend for the Christ follower, is sin, because we know that anything without faith is sin. It's impossible for us to please God when there is no faith. So what's one area in this spiritual that I've used, in this spiritual language, where you have masked a decision and you've said, oh, it's not about fear. But really, now, when you hear marketing, leadership, pricing, growth and messaging, what's the thing that you literally are going? Oh crap, I made this decision or I didn't make this decision, it was based out of fear.

Speaker 1:

And here's another question for you guys listening today when have I chosen comfort over clarity in my business? Where have I chosen comfort over clarity? Guys, clarifying conversations are not easy. Clarifying conversations are hard. My favorite podcast in the history of all podcasts is my friend Ken Coleman Entree Leadership Podcast. Ken, if you're listening, shout out to you homie. He was interviewed in Patrick Lencioni. I think it's podcast like number 78 or 58. It's a long time ago, like 2014 or 2015. I've listened to that podcast over a hundred times. It's that good. But Pat in that podcast talks about choosing comfort over clarity. And this is what he says. A lot of us are afraid of difficult conversations and we think we're being kind when kindness is actually giving people clarity and you can have a clarifying conversation, guys, and it not be emotional or make it to where people don't get triggered.

Speaker 1:

So how do we replace that fear? So I want to give you the fear replacement framework. I want to give you two or three different things that I think, if you write these things down and you process through decision-making based through this framework, I think it will help you. Number one is identify the story. What fear is narrating the moment. What's the fear? Fear of failure, fear of rejection, fear of loss? What is the fear that's standing in front of you? And again, I mentioned this last week and we've all heard this we're only born as human beings with two different fears Fear of falling and the fear of loud noises. All the other fears we have are what Learned. So if I can learn a fear, then I can also do what I can also unlearn it. So the first question when you're making a decision or fear and you know, oh man, this could be fear identify the story.

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What fear is narrating the moment? What is the voice of fear saying to you Number two, interrupt the pattern. Nope, not gonna do this. Like I'm not, like everything on the inside of you may just almost be frozen because you don't have the strength to make the right decision. God, go right back to Psalms 139.

Speaker 1:

Search my heart, show me that, know the anxious ways in me and God, give me strength, invite God into the fear. Having fear isn't sin. But just sitting there and wallowing in it and chewing on it and just ruminating on it that my friend will lead you and I to sin really quick. But when we stop and we take a minute to invite God, god, I want you to come right here in the midst of this fear. God, you've called me to build the largest faith-based entrepreneur movement this country has ever seen. There's going to be some moments where I'm afraid.

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God, I need your help. God, I need you to sit right here in the middle of this fear. I need you to look at my heart as I'm navigating relationships and trying to find a partner, trying to find somebody to grow this thing with me. God, it's fearful at times. I need you to sit in the midst of my heart and help me navigate and help me understand where I go. God, I need to hear your whisper, I need your small still voice. Identify the story, interrupt the pattern, name it, seek the opposite truth. If I have a fear of loss, what's the truth on the other side of that? What's the truth on the other side of that? When we identify and speak the opposite truth we invite? What Proximity, god, I need you to come in the middle of this, not only God in that relationship, but the people you're doing life with.

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That's why I say, if you're a faith-based entrepreneur you're listening to this podcast and you don't have a community of believers, you need to run right now to growstackdrivecom forward slash ecosystem. You need to check out our community, our circle and our corner. It's our three spheres of proximity community $97 a month. Circle for 97 a month. Corner for nine, nine, seven a month a month. Those are the businesses that we love, we dive deep in. But even at $97 a month, guys, I created a $97 a month community. No matter where you're at in your entrepreneurial journey, you do not have to take this journey by yourself. There are 30 to 40 entrepreneurs on every call that we do, all kinds of verticals all over the country. We literally what I'm teaching you today on this podcast are conversations that we have on our coaching calls.

Speaker 1:

Interrupt the pattern. The third thing replace it with faithful action. Don't overcorrect. Just act in alignment. Just say you know what, I'm a little anxious, I'm a little fearful. God, I need you to come set. Just say you know what, I'm a little anxious, I'm a little fearful. God, I need you to come sit right in the middle of this and God, I love James 1.5. It's one of my for 25 years guys, 30 years.

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Anytime someone asks me in ministry, in real estate, doing what I'm doing now, building GSD, when somebody asks me, ken, how can I pray for you Outside of you know, one of my kids are sick or something's happening like that, it's always wisdom. I need wisdom. James 1.5 says if you lack wisdom and you ask, I'll give it to you liberally and without reproach. Always wisdom. So don't overreact. Act in alignment, not anxiety. See, the fear says if I raise my prices, people will leave. The truth says God supplies all my needs, not a discount I give somebody. Guys, think about it.

Speaker 1:

If you're a faith-based entrepreneur and you're listening to this podcast, let me ask you this question who's responsible for the outcome in your business, you or God? I'll wait. I know you're having a conversation with yourself, you or God. It's not you, it's God. God's the one that said hey, I put this dream in your heart. Now I just need you to focus on becoming the best version of yourself in your core five areas. You do the things every single day that you need. You learn, you grow, you make a mistake. You go oh, how did I do that. You do something great oh, how did I do that. And you're deriving transferable principles for all these decisions that you've made. God's like you keep doing that and God says you know what? I will give the increase. I'm the one that sends people to your business. It's up to God, it's not up to ourselves.

Speaker 1:

So here's some questions I want to leave you with today. Number one where has fear been quietly steering your business, your decisions or your relationships? Where has fear been quietly driving, steering, leading you to in your business, in your relationships and in your decisions? How has fear been doing that? And then again go right back to the framework, identify the story, interrupt the pattern and replace it with what Faithful action? So, number one where has fear been quietly steering your business, relationships and your decisions Number two and I'm going to close and I'm super excited to continue this series next week.

Speaker 1:

What story needs to be rewritten with truth? What's the story that fear keeps whispering from the back seat to you? What's the story that fear keeps whispering from the backseat to you? What's the voice that keeps telling you you're not good enough? What's the voice that tells you you can't? You've never grown a business to seven figures or eight figures? Who do you think you are? What's the story that needs to be rewritten in your heart? Those of you guys listening to this on podcast, I'd love for you to take and write these. Here's a few notes you can write down Get with your small group.

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Get with a group of people inside of our GSD community. Where has fear shown up? What's the truth that replaces that fear? And then, what's the aligned action you're going to take right now? We don't wait a week. We don't wait five days, like right now. You know God's speaking something to you in your heart regarding moving from fear to courage.

Speaker 1:

And again, fear whispers. It's not loud, it's just like me. It's not good enough, you're not talented enough, you don't have what it takes, you don't have the resources, you don't have the right relationships Like fear, just whispers and then fear is in the backseat going. Hey, let me drive. Let me take over for a minute. I see you're tired. Let me go ahead and take over for just a little bit. Guys, don't forget identify the story, interrupt the pattern, replace it with faithful action, make decisions based off of alignment and not anxiety. Guys, thanks for joining us on another episode of as the Leader Grows.

Speaker 1:

I'd love for you guys to listen. If you don't have a community, jump in. We have a free community option for everybody that listens to this podcast. Growstackdrivecom forward slash free. Growstackdrivecom forward slash free. All of our Create Conference recordings are on there. All of our Create Conference recordings are on there. All of our digital eBooks, all of our workbooks, our GSD Daily Planner, my first book, as the Leader Grows everything's in digital format and it's absolutely free for you. Growstackdrivecom forward slash free. I'll see you next week on as the Leader Grows.